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Thomas
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Sunday, December 29 2013, 6:36 pm EST
the clique shall prevail

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So I volunteer at a soup kitchen. I want to help the community by providing them a free service out of my own time to try and give back. Sure, it can be tough, but there are some really nice and grateful people that you meet. However, on some days I decide that, "You know what? I don't feel like helping there despite the fact that I said I would be there helping." Maybe because of my good reputation with the people that kitchen it gets overlooked, by when I make a habit of not showing up, the people that I serve and the people over me can't rely on me and eventually I'm going to get asked to simply stop coming.
jazz
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Sunday, December 29 2013, 9:31 pm EST

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I don't think you need analogies. I hope most people are intelligent to understand what you mean. I disagree with Yimmy on some of his opinions, because Thomas *is* right when he says that there is a rather strange staff to active member ratio. But I wouldn't go as far as to relieve them of their staff position; they have rightly gained that status. Perhaps giving more powers to older members would be a good idea, or maybe separating the staff into different groups with different power levels (over 9000).
soccerboy13542
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Sunday, December 29 2013, 9:39 pm EST
~*~Soccer~*~

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I don't think staff get as much power as you really think. Yes, they can do stuff like what Yaya has done, upload front page images and video images. However, the ability to make competitions only is used correctly if someone has an idea for one. As a non staff member, I can add just as many contributions to this site as the staff members. Thomas, if you were put in a staff position, what would you try to do to increase activity and the site as a whole OTHER THAN FIRE OTHER STAFF MEMBERS.


'Livio' said:
You know, I was thinking of getting an internship at Microsoft, but I'm not sure I want their lameness to rub off on me.
Thomas
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Sunday, December 29 2013, 10:30 pm EST
the clique shall prevail

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Facts:
-staff can add video preview images
-staff can update featured content
-staff can approve games
-staff can post on the homepage

And none of those were done... until Yaya came.

If I was in a staff position I'd do the above at the least. Wouldn't you?
soccerboy13542
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Sunday, December 29 2013, 10:39 pm EST
~*~Soccer~*~

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So now that we have a staff member that can do those pretty quickly, what else? I'm asking this from everybody, not just Thomas. If I were staff, yes, I'd do all of those. They seem like pretty simple tasks. I don't really know why they weren't done in the first place, but to maintain activity, more need to be done than just adding images and approving new content.


'Livio' said:
You know, I was thinking of getting an internship at Microsoft, but I'm not sure I want their lameness to rub off on me.
Livio
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Monday, December 30 2013, 12:29 am EST

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I pretty much agree with everything that jebby and shos have already said.

But I think the idea of kicking out staff members is worth looking into. I think what Thomas is trying to say is that if we were to periodically kick out staff for being inactive, then that would encourage the staff to be more active. It would set up a standard for the kind of commitment that we're looking for of our staff members, and it'd provide a real and immediate consequence for negligence.

This could actually be a pretty cool idea, depending on how we do it. I mean, it sounds really negative, but this is essentially an incentive system and we could design the system in such a way that it would be more fun. For instance, maybe we could find a fun way to measure "staff activity" based on "staff tasks" (things like updating featured content, approving things, moderating posts), and then have the site track it all automatically. Then we could easily see who's the most active staff member and remind certain members when they're being inactive. I can imagine some of us logging in at the end of a week to add something random to the featured content just to avoid being labeled as an inactive staff member or something.

Like everyone's been saying, there's a larger discussion to be had about how to make the staff more active, and removing staff members is only one of the possible solutions.
krotomo
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Monday, December 30 2013, 12:53 am EST
The Shepherd

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I didn't really think of the idea of removing staff like this before, but I kinda agree with Livio now. It is possible that removing staff could have a benefit on how productive the staff is.
jazz
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Monday, December 30 2013, 1:51 am EST

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Bye bye, Haily...
soccerboy13542
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Monday, December 30 2013, 1:53 am EST
~*~Soccer~*~

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My problem with that is that there isn't much activity to begin with. So we have, what, 10 staff members? We'd be lucky to see 10 event worthy things happen in a week, so I guess this'd be on a monthly basis? But that still doesn't seem /active/ if a person comes on like once a month. It's hard to gauge.  


'Livio' said:
You know, I was thinking of getting an internship at Microsoft, but I'm not sure I want their lameness to rub off on me.
shos
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Monday, December 30 2013, 10:46 am EST
~Jack of all trades~

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'Livio' said:
I pretty much agree with everything that jebby and shos have already said.

But I think the idea of kicking out staff members is worth looking into. I think what Thomas is trying to say is that if we were to periodically kick out staff for being inactive, then that would encourage the staff to be more active. It would set up a standard for the kind of commitment that we're looking for of our staff members, and it'd provide a real and immediate consequence for negligence.

This could actually be a pretty cool idea, depending on how we do it. I mean, it sounds really negative, but this is essentially an incentive system and we could design the system in such a way that it would be more fun. For instance, maybe we could find a fun way to measure "staff activity" based on "staff tasks" (things like updating featured content, approving things, moderating posts), and then have the site track it all automatically. Then we could easily see who's the most active staff member and remind certain members when they're being inactive. I can imagine some of us logging in at the end of a week to add something random to the featured content just to avoid being labeled as an inactive staff member or something.

Like everyone's been saying, there's a larger discussion to be had about how to make the staff more active, and removing staff members is only one of the possible solutions.
that made me smile. it might raise stuff like staff 'prod dodging', which will be entirely useless. however, if you realllly feel like having even more work than you do, you can make 'staff points'! - approve a video - get 2 staff points! update homepage - get 50! WOW! lol...that's a funny idea that came to mind. but still, this won't change the schedule of working staff members, studying staff members, etc. in 2 months i'll re-become both...


soccerboy13542
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Monday, December 30 2013, 2:50 pm EST
~*~Soccer~*~

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and you can exchange these points for ACTUAL fake prizes!


'Livio' said:
You know, I was thinking of getting an internship at Microsoft, but I'm not sure I want their lameness to rub off on me.
buboy24
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Monday, December 30 2013, 11:44 pm EST

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I'm very happy that Yaya became a staff member. Well, he's active and visit the site more often than the other staffs. See, there's a lot of new games approved!


It's good to be back.
Darvince
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Wednesday, January 1 2014, 1:21 am EST
sea level change

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I'm actually the one that helped him write this, should I say what parts I wrote?


"Time is a circuit, not a line; cybernetics instantiates templexity."

shos
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Wednesday, January 1 2014, 9:46 am EST
~Jack of all trades~

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I dont think it matters, the idea was understood..


Quirvy
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Thursday, January 2 2014, 7:34 pm EST
  

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I missed (most of) this due to vacation, I'm kinda glad that I did. I have a few things to say:

I like the idea Livio came up with. I also think it's funny that you propose we dump Livio as a staff member. Not that you're wrong about him being really inactive (in fact you did actually make a few good points in your post), but regardless of activity, he's the owner of the site.

The description of the staff as "borg collective" or something is completely unfounded. The way I interpret that is you're saying that Sefro posted to the staff forum "Lets suspend them all" and then everyone agreed without looking into the matter any further. Or maybe you just mean that there's never conflict/disagreement among the staff, that everyone always agrees to whatever the previous person said. Well:
a. This is not always true, and there's no way you could even know whether or not that is true. Since you don't have access to the staff forum, you shouldn't know how we operate internally. All that is speculation. For example, there was no conformity among the staff as far the length of the punishments went, hence why Jorster got his suspension shortened after it was initially handed out.
b. This isn't congress, we're supposed to be acting in agreement. Why should the staff not act collectively? Should we instead act without consulting eachother, and then when disagreements arise, get into public arguments? (note that these are rhetorical questions, not ones I actually intend to be answered)



Even if you were planning to make this before the suspension, you can't honestly have thought that it would be a good idea to post this right after you got out from your suspension... Right? You're speaking in metaphors, so how 'bout this: Let's say that a drunken man gets arrested for public intoxication, and then the next day he petitions for all of the police to be fired, calling them "pigs trying to hold onto their deadweight jobs". Even if he has valid reasons for why the policemen should be fired, it's not going to look good.

It also doesn't look good posting a collective opinion under your name and then not agreeing with it all; if you don't agree with certain parts of then further discussion should be had, otherwise you look silly posting something and then refusing to address things that are on your post that you're supposedly giving support, because you "didn't write it". If you don't support something that somebody else said then you should leave it up to them to say it.



And finally being staff is not a "cozy position". This really bothered me, especially since it was coming from you. I worked my butt off near the tail end of the semester, I had practically no free time at all. After finally getting done with everything, I had a weekend of spare time before I went back to not having any free time. I just wanted to come on here, finally add to the minecraft server discussion (there were some posts that were made a while ago that I wanted to respond to but didn't have the time to), and then play some minecraft. It was going to be nice and relaxing.

But then of course when I actually log on, I see that I have an urgent PM from Isa saying that some bad stuff is happening and I need to go to the staff discussion topic ASAP and read every single post. Instead of getting to chill and enjoy my free time, I get the "cozy" experience of looking into some very nasty PMs, having to deal with the fact that one of the members I thought very highly of was involved in trying to bully our youngest member off the site, and having to involve myself into the discussion of "how long should we suspend these members?" And this isn't just suspending some random bad guys that we don't care about, we have to suspend people that we know and have friendly interactions with on the site.

And admittedly that was kind of an anomaly, but even just this last week when I was I was on vacation, and I visited the site (logged out) just to see if anyone posted anything interesting, and I see that there's this giant topic and that I probably have to address this as well once I got back, and it was about that point I considered, "you know, it would actually be pretty nice to resign from staff and just be a normal member. Then I could just enjoy the site and not have to deal with all this crap all the time." There are things I wanted to be doing right now. Writing this post isn't one of them.

And then there are other lovely things, like when we had to deal with Silver making tons of accounts (really long time ago, don't hold it against current Silver, just an example), having to make sure I log on frequently just so that neezles doesn't get the opportunity to make a bunch of crude posts, having to send you that one really long PM because you were a problem that needed to be addressed, having spend my free time uploading a bunch of images for videos that whoever uploaded them forgot to do (I really wish Livio would remove that feature, btw. Uploading images for every video is annoying).

I get that being staff isn't supposed to be a boatload of fun, but that's just my point; it isn't, so get this idea out of your head that we're all sitting back, relaxing, and having a good time over at the staff forum in some crazy party topics or something like that. From my perspective, right now the only incentive there is to being staff is having power, and if you have to use that power, it's rarely fun time.



I don't really have much further to say. I'd support a system like what Livio proposed, I wouldn't oppose getting rid of a few inactive staff members (we were actually briefly discussing that possibility before this topic), but getting rid of practically all the staff members (including Livio) is not going to happen. As such, I'm not really going to be addressing that proposition any further. There are solutions to making a more efficient staff, but that's not one of them. Bmwsu and Yaya would initially maintain the featured content and videos and stuff, but you really think after a full year they'll still feel motivated to do that stuff? I doubt it.

We need to make incentives if we want people to do the staff dirty-work, otherwise eventually no one will want to bother with it.



spooky secret

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