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Yaya
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Friday, May 7 2010, 2:50 pm EST

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Man, British politics always seemed so simple from my point of view, elect some guys for parliment, elect the Pm, but you're making it sound more complicated Isa, is this because America only gives a crap about Middle-eastern politics and our own?



COMING SOON: A giant meteor. Please.
Give me +karma. Give me +karma.
Isa
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Friday, May 7 2010, 2:57 pm EST
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Most probably. Then again, both of you have pretty odd politics systems...
jebby
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Friday, May 7 2010, 6:32 pm EST
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I voted Lib-Dems, but it was pretty much a wasted vote because John Hayes, the Conservative candidate for my constituency is leagues ahead of the rest in terms of popularity. I live in a rural area and the farmers and churchpeople LURVE guys like Mr.Hayes who promises to keep things the way they are. I don't like him though; he spelt my name wrong when writing me a 'personal' letter.

I vaguely follow politics because I'm doing it at college, but I find that most of them are dishonest old buggers who are trying to sell themselves to the general public.

And, as Isa highlighted, Labour are going to have massive problems forming a government with the Lib-Dems due to falling short of the majority line. According to the BBC, even with the help of the other Labour-supportive parties, Labour won't be able to form a government. Looks like a Lib-Tory government, and I can't see that lasting very long.  
Isa
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Friday, May 7 2010, 6:48 pm EST
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I dislike the British voting system, and I wholeheartedly support Lib. Dem.'s will to reconstruct it. I find it unfair that a party gaining more than 20% of the votes still only gets about 10% of the seats in the House of Commons, while a party with 35% of the votes can get about 48% of the seats.

I am still a bit happy though about the elections. The Green Party in UK got its first MP! Yay for Green Parties!
FlashMarsh
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Friday, May 14 2010, 2:20 pm EST

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For isa...

DISASTER STRIKES!!

GORDON BROWN has stepped down as PM.
The LIB DEMS. have formed a goverment with the CONSERVATIVES!!
Isa
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Saturday, May 15 2010, 4:42 am EST
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At least the Lib. Dems. got some (very minor) power...That electorial system ain't changing anytime soon.
Livio
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Saturday, May 15 2010, 5:07 pm EST

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Arizona legislature strikes again!
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/05/15/nr.levs.az.ban.ethnic.study.cnn
New ethnic-studies law bans classes that supposedly provoke ethnic solidarity (when you define yourself [or others] by their race), and classes that are "designed primarily for one ethnic group". The law also bans classes that are seen as advocating the overthrow of government, or advocates hatred towards another race or class.

Some schools offer courses that focus on the history of certain major ethnic groups in the U.S., but this whole thing was apparently in response to this one Latino class called "Raza studies" in this one school. Raza translates to "roots" or "the people", but the superintendent believes it translates to "race" (as in ethnic race). Also, some students posted a radical video on the internet about how the "establishment" was going to fall or something, and there is some concern that one of the books taught in that class was based off of Marxist ideals.

I like how in that video one of the anchors was wondering where the whole "overthrow of government" thing came from. It makes him wonder if legislatures are responding to problems they think are there but really aren't.

Anyway, Arizona sure knows how to ruin its own reputation. They should stop before the whole country starts boycotting us, and just when the economy was starting to turn around too...
shos
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Monday, May 31 2010, 2:02 pm EST
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So uh, I wanted to know - what does the news in your countries say about what happened this night in Israel with the ships. You don't have to express your opinion, but if you do, I'll be happy to read them, even if they're against Israel.


Livio
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Monday, May 31 2010, 2:05 pm EST

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it certainly doesn't look like Israel is interested in peace.

but it's not like either side is interested in peace anyway.
imtimi
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Monday, May 31 2010, 2:09 pm EST
5 x 6 = ?

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How awesome that you're from Israel, shos. Are you Jewish (just being curious)? I don't exactly keep up to date with all of these events going on, but I gotta say that I was shocked when Turkey decided to turn around on their alliance with you. Israel is becoming the focus of the world, and all over a hilltop and building some homes. From what I know of the media here (USA), most politicians are trying to make Israel seem like the enemy in all accounts.

What exactly has been going on over there?
Livio
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Monday, May 31 2010, 2:17 pm EST

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I don't think people are trying to demonize Israel. It may look like that if you truly believe the Israel never does anything wrong and that they're always right, but it's just that there are a lot of people here who want to see an end to the conflict over there and it's just frustrating whenever Israel or Palestine take a step backward. It's also frustrating to see both sides acting like children when their excuse is always "No, it was the other side's fault. They made us do it. We didn't do anything wrong."
jellsprout
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Monday, May 31 2010, 2:17 pm EST
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"COMMOTION ABOUT ACTION ISRAEL"
"Actions against Gaza convoy"
"Netanyuha: action was self-defense"
"U.S. deplores deaths at action Israel"
"Israel stops aidconvoy with violence"
"Restless demonstration in The Hague"

Edit: If you read this post with the Dutch headlines, some of these phrases were a bit difficult to directly translate into English, and my translation app doesn't work in textboxes.


Spoiler:
Livio
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Monday, May 31 2010, 2:19 pm EST

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I don't get it. Commotion about action Israel?
Livio
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Monday, May 31 2010, 2:34 pm EST

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'CNN' said:
Israel claimed it was defending itself, with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) saying the soldiers' lives were in danger after they were attacked with "severe physical violence, including live fire, weapons, knives and clubs."

The Free Gaza Movement, one of the organizers of the aid, said that Israeli commandos dropped from a helicopter onto the deck of one of the ships early Monday and "immediately opened fire on unarmed civilians."
I dunno, it sounds like both sides could be exaggerating their stories. Also a lot of countries are responding negatively towards Israel. If you think their reactions are a bit harsh given which side of the story you believe, just know that it may also be fueled by their annoyance with Israel's recent behavior in general, especially with that housing project.
Isa
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Monday, May 31 2010, 4:14 pm EST
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I am not content with the actions Israel has taken against Ship to Gaza.

Swedish headlines:
Nine Swedes have been arrested
7000 protested against the Israeli attack
The raid became a blood bath
My dad is arrested
This is unacceptable
Israel lowers itself to a new bottom level
Only dictators and bandits usually attack helpers
This is catastrofal, Israel
Livio
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Monday, May 31 2010, 4:23 pm EST

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Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc said, "This operation will leave a bloody stain on the history of humanity."
shos
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Monday, May 31 2010, 7:45 pm EST
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Warning: an incredibly long post ahead!
'Livio' said:
it certainly doesn't look like Israel is interested in peace.

but it's not like either side is interested in peace anyway.

Well, i guess that *is* your opinion, lol, but that wasn't what i was asking xD anyways - I'll answer to this generally in the future of this post, cuz i'll make some general statements later - i do take these things serious.
'imtimi' said:
How awesome that you're from Israel, shos. Are you Jewish (just being curious)? I don't exactly keep up to date with all of these events going on, but I gotta say that I was shocked when Turkey decided to turn around on their alliance with you. Israel is becoming the focus of the world, and all over a hilltop and building some homes. From what I know of the media here (USA), most politicians are trying to make Israel seem like the enemy in all accounts.

What exactly has been going on over there?


Uh yep, I'm a Jew, as my whole family and most of the friends. i do have some around 50 arab friends from all over, but I am considered very right-winged. Turkey's been acting wierdly lately, i'll get to that later, as said to livio.

'Livio' said:
I don't think people are trying to demonize Israel. It may look like that if you truly believe the Israel never does anything wrong and that they're always right, but it's just that there are a lot of people here who want to see an end to the conflict over there and it's just frustrating whenever Israel or Palestine take a step backward. It's also frustrating to see both sides acting like children when their excuse is always "No, it was the other side's fault. They made us do it. We didn't do anything wrong."


lol, you're extremely naive Livio...however, you are right, in most cases. i'll express my opinions later

'jellsprout' said:
"COMMOTION ABOUT ACTION ISRAEL"
"Actions against Gaza convoy"
"Netanyuha: action was self-defense"
"U.S. deplores deaths at action Israel"
"Israel stops aidconvoy with violence"
"Restless demonstration in The Hague"

Edit: If you read this post with the Dutch headlines, some of these phrases were a bit difficult to directly translate into English, and my translation app doesn't work in textboxes.


lol no need in exact translations here but thanks, i got what i wanted to get.

'Livio' said:
I don't get it. Commotion about action Israel?


this should be more like, commotion about israel's action, i think. correct me if i'm wrong, of course

'Livio' said:
'CNN' said:
Israel claimed it was defending itself, with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) saying the soldiers' lives were in danger after they were attacked with "severe physical violence, including live fire, weapons, knives and clubs."

The Free Gaza Movement, one of the organizers of the aid, said that Israeli commandos dropped from a helicopter onto the deck of one of the ships early Monday and "immediately opened fire on unarmed civilians."
I dunno, it sounds like both sides could be exaggerating their stories. Also a lot of countries are responding negatively towards Israel. If you think their reactions are a bit harsh given which side of the story you believe, just know that it may also be fueled by their annoyance with Israel's recent behavior in general, especially with that housing project.


Woah, i'm awed here. The whole thing was filmed and shown LIVE on our 3 main channels through almost the whole thing, and as one that watched that, that is completely wrong i'll update you with correct stuff later...just alittle more to read...down there...

'Isa' said:
I am not content with the actions Israel has taken against Ship to Gaza.

Swedish headlines:
Nine Swedes have been arrested
7000 protested against the Israeli attack
The raid became a blood bath
My dad is arrested
This is unacceptable
Israel lowers itself to a new bottom level
Only dictators and bandits usually attack helpers
This is catastrofal, Israel


woah, with these headlines, can't blame you. just like jell - i got what i wanted to get, thanks.

'Livio' said:
Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc said, "This operation will leave a bloody stain on the history of humanity."

lol, duh? captain obvious XD


Weeeheeheellll. GENERAL RESPONSE STARTS HERE!
As I said, we(at least, I) watched a big part of the thing live. so here's how it went.
the first thing that happened was when we(israelis) started to take action. as international laws command, we first contacted the ships by radar(or whatever that is, phone? forgot the word), and asked them where they were heading to. that was outside of Israel's territorial water so far; but that question didn't really need an answer, and they didn't even respond. then we told them something about not allowing them to get to Gaza, and only one ship answered in arabic what was translated to be 'we continue' or something. note that the ships were told that if they have humanitarian aid, give them over, and they shall be provided to Gaza strip, as most countries who send aid do. that was ignored, of course.

So, since the ship was said to hold peace-makers and stuff, the IDF did not prepare for a violent response. two helicopters were flying over the deck, and soldiers started to climb down. the first one got on the deck, and apparantly they were all waiting for him with clubs and knives. they were not even sent there with the usual army weapon - the M16 - they were only holding a gun. well, both guns were stolen from them; they were hit with clubs and metal pipes, and one was thrown overboard. when they started using the guns, live fire was used, and as far as I know(not confirmed, tho) 15 people were killed. they were also holding paintball guns - but that was only found after we secured the ship. at the start, there, one soldier cracked his skull and is critically injured, 2 others were severely wounded and three more are wounded too.

a few of things from the live shots we saw on tv showed the way the IDF soldiers were attacked. this was quite incredible - peace makers? yea, right, perhaps bulldangters. the soldiers were attacked even BEFORE they got to the ship - aka, while on the rope, things were thrown at them. other than that, there was use of molotov cocktails and grenades(what the heck? why would an aid convoy hold these?), metal pipes, chairs, war knives (I couldn't find the things that were shown on TV anywhere on the net - so here's a pic that resembles, frm my memory: http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/05/15/70963483.jpg) and frags.

one must note that there was only one ship that caused all that. the 5 others did not fight. however, you can't expect us to just let all those people be - so as far as i know, some were taken custody, some arrested, i dunno anything about that.

and one last thing - you also cannot expect us to not do anything of that kind. that wasn't the first time:
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3800306,00.html
I suggest you read this. that is lame english indeed, but that was a while ago, when Barak, one of our leaders said 'not the last time' - and voila, who knows what was on these ships. I haven't heard a thing about what really was found inside them, in all this mess.

well uh, don' think i have anything to say. i suppose videos and picture will be uploaded to the net in the next few days to confirm what i said.  


shos
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Monday, May 31 2010, 8:01 pm EST
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uh, i found some vids that are suitable here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMjAULWn0 - this one is serious. the ones in black-and-while were shown live on TV; the one with the soldier being stabbed - i only saw that one now. and apparantly unlike what i said before, it was OUT people who held paintball arms.  


Livio
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Tuesday, June 1 2010, 3:21 am EST

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good explanations shos. I don't even know much about what happened anyway.

I've already heard some people call these boat guys "terrorists", but obviously that's not the case when you look at the "weapons" they had. The worst thing that I recognized was the knives, but to me it looks like these guys were just your everyday radicals. These are the kind of guys who are just itching for a fight with the other side, and they believe so much in their cause that they go crazy over it. To me it seemed like when the IDF landed, the radicals panicked or something, and once the fight started it just started escalating from there.

And then when the incident was over they probably started telling the media about what happened because-- well, it's not that they wanted to make Israel look bad, because from their point of view, they're just exposing Israel for what it is. Anyway, when other countries started hearing about this, they were already pretty annoyed by Israel to an extent, so they thought that the radical's (for lack of a better word) side of the story seemed plausible.

But of course, Israel needs to be careful on how they react to this. If they start demonizing the boaters and everything, even if they're on the winning side of the argument, they'll still look bad in front of the other countries for letting things get to their heads as usual.
shos
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Tuesday, June 1 2010, 5:37 am EST
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well, now you see our problem? people hate us, and people hate us more because other people hate us. i doubt anyone can give me one good reason for that O_o
My guess is that some terrorists threatened the turkish government or something. it's not the first time they were antiisrael; but the first time it happened, they regretted it immidiately because the israelis are practically a VERY large part of their tourists and stuff, and it caused them to lose billions. now, when they started burning flags and calling death to israel as happens in most places, they will surely regret it. i don't see any way for them to profit from doing what they did; they lost money, they lose people, and if they want a war, they're doomed O_o; so what i'm saying is, terrorists really have to be the cause for this whole thing somehow. if they really wanted to send aid to the strip, they would have sent it by plane to us, and that would have been delivered to the strip. Israel transfers hundreds of tons of supply to gaza daily; but why would the world report of that...they like hating us for no reason.

and livio, about that 'terrorist' definition, why would you say that? so if i go with a war knife and slay some random people, i'm not a terrorist because i used a knife?..

really, what CAN we do? we will react to this as usual my friend. it's not like we have a choice, you know. i can't see anything that we done, in this case, wrong. anything at all   


Isa
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Tuesday, June 1 2010, 6:34 am EST
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'Livio' said:
I don't even know much about what happened anyway.

Then read up and don't limit yourself to only one source of information.

Attacking ships on international territory is wrong. The ship was still outside Israel when it was bordered.

And I don't see why you find it necessary to prevent people to handle out toys, food, and such. The amount of supplies handled to Gaza has been cut in half since the blockade was announced in 2007. The Red Cross, UNWRA, WHO and OXFAM all says that the blockade against Gaza is the main thing preventing a successful restoration.

Turkey won't be doomed if Israel attacks them, neither will Israel be doomed if Turkey attacks. The attacked side will get huge support, and therefore, neither country will attack.

I believe you're missing the point of the action - by sending these supplies by boat, it's much easier to call you out on your blockade against Gaza than if they were to fly the supplies there. My personal opinion.

Finally, the hatred against Israel is most likely because of the actions taken during the last few years. Announcing a big housing project while having Biden on visit with the intention of stopping those projects, killing 300 innocent children in Palestine and calling them "Hamas-children", killing 1400 civilians two years ago...
shos
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Tuesday, June 1 2010, 6:58 am EST
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*sigh* can't believe you're actually saying this. i'll respond to this later on today, cuz i gotta rush to the university now. i read today's newspaper - the organizors of the thing admitted that it was a trap to isolate israel from the world, apparantly I'll update you with more info when i get back - that would be in around 8 hours, i suppose.


Isa
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Tuesday, June 1 2010, 7:03 am EST
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Quote:
the organizors of the thing admitted that it was a trap to isolate israel from the world, apparantly


Eagerly waiting for news sources not from Israel to confirm this - it sounds like bull to me, to be honest.

You have to realize that the Israelite military forces are dominating the media. Everything they say stands unopposed, making them free to say whatever they want. The activists haven't been able to tell their story, and it's easy to believe
1. what you want to believe
2. something that's not being opposed by someone else.
FlashMarsh
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Tuesday, June 1 2010, 11:40 am EST

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For some reason, in Britain, there hasn't been much on Israel. Anyway, everyone still hates Blair for Iraq, so we've probably lost the Eurovision song contest. Maybe to gather more votes we should make one vote mean one electric shock for Blair?
jellsprout
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Tuesday, June 1 2010, 1:25 pm EST
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We don't blaim Blair for Iraq, we blaim Balkenende, our own prime minister. He lied to the entire ministry so he could get support for the Iraq campaign and suck up to Bush. And he still refuses to acknowledge it.

There is still one thing that puzzles me. How is it possible that the Israeli force, possibly the best trained force in the world, was threatened by a bunch of tree hugging hippies?


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