I haven't seen them in the vote count here, so in my opinion they're fairly useless

I'm slightly suspicious of mymop, but not that much because his reasoning for not making very many posts is essentially the same as what mine is for not making very many posts. Not that I want every post of mine to be a new theory, but that I want them to not just be part of someone else's argument.

I want to see if rocketguy makes any substantive posts with votes on him.

Vote: Rocket Guy2

Okay so I was planning to reply to Soccer but he just made another long post so I will have to gather my thoughts again. But since Jory asked for people to post their readlists, I figured that I should do that; I'd been planning to do that, so I wanted to get it over with.

1.) Yimmy - So far all of his posts have been fairly constructive. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I'm 100% confident of his innocence but he hasn't done anything to raise any alarms, either. I feel like his comment on scummy townies vs. inactive ones is more of a misstep than anything particularly suspicious. He's open to new possibilities, at least, which makes me lean towards Town because I feel like scum would benefit more from pushing one particular viewpoint. Slight town.

2.) Isa - I think Isa's contributions to this game can be summarized into two major actions: the first being the Miller reveal, and the second being the initiation of the anti-Mymop brigade. I didn't comment on the Miller reveal because I honestly didn't feel qualified enough to say anything of note (and also because I was extremely busy that week). What I don't understand, however, is why he seems so convinced that Mymop is scum while RG2 must simply be an inexperienced player. I have a gut feeling that there might be some preconceptions at play here; as Mymop rightfully argued, this is his first Mafia game on the Interguild, and his behaviour (though admittedly erratic) strikes me more as that of a clueless player. No comment.

3.) RG - RG2 is still my top suspect, though, considering Isa's influence, I doubt he'll be lynched on Day 1, which is why I'm willing to switch my vote to Mymop. In any case, RG2 has done absolutely nothing to indicate that he is Town, or that he supports the Town's interests at all. One thing that I didn't consider before is that he might be the Jester due to his general apathy for the Town's wellbeing. I feel like he's probably gonna be investigated tonight regardless of what he says next. Moderate scum.

4.) Soccer - I'm hesitant to comment on Soccer because I have not had the motivation to dissect his posts - like Isa, he feels too experienced, as if he is playing on another level. But his behaviour has pretty much consistently been in line with town, at least in my opinion; like Yimmy he's also open to new possibilities such as that of Jory being scum (which I hadn't considered prior to seeing his post) and I feel like he gave a good defense against Yimmy's accusation. Slight town.

5.) Mymop - I guess I said most of what I was gonna say about Mymop in point 1.) when I was talking about Isa. But yeah, he's pretty obviously inexperienced - whether that points to scum or town is another matter entirely. Neutral.

6.) Jory - I'll admit that I've been too sympathetic to Jory, mainly because he expressed similar opinions to mine near the beginning of the game by voting for Rocket Guy2, so I kind of came to the conclusion that he must be Town as well. But I've gotten warier because I have learned that it is impossible to fully trust ANYBODY, and since he jumped ship to voting for Mymop I can't really figure out his intentions anymore. For now I'm just gonna say slight town lean and leave it at that. Slight town.

7.) atvelonis - What's most significant about atvelonis is probably his indecision, or really, his refusal to take any action at all. He also seems a bit too willing to come to Mymop's defense although I'm not sure if that has anything to do with them being brothers. But I take him at his word when he says that he and Mymop aren't communicating with each other in real life. Neutral but very slightly scum.

8.) Darvince - He hasn't posted in ages, or contributed anything noteworthy other than that subliminal "LYNCH ME" message during the random posting stage. I would say that he is due for a prod if not for the fact that he is literally online at the time of writing. Idk if that warrants a prod but I want him to post more. Oh wait he just posted so nevermind but I agree with pretty much everything he said there. No comment.

Umm WHERE ARE MY COLOURS. I can't see them in this preview post feature so I hope they show up in my actual post?[

Darn I was planning to click on preview post but ended up hitting post reply before I fixed all the colours. Also that ended up being a LOT longer than I intended and a lot of it is just restating what I have said before so read at your own discretion.

Ok, here goes. I'll try to make it similar to your own (with your system of light, moderate, etc. town/scum lean. The text coloring was also a good idea).

atvelonis: Neutral or light town lean. He hasn't made many posts but neither have I. He also suspects RG, which I do as well.
aych bee: Light to moderate town lean. HB has contributed a lot of arguments to the discussion, all of which seem sensible to me.
Darvince: Neutral or light town lean. I have basically the same reasoning for Darvince as for atvelonis.
Isa: Neutral. At first, his claim about his role seemed suspicious but after further explanation it seems trustworthy. His suspicion of me was reasonable at first but his persistence in it slightly unnerves me.
Jorster: Neutral. He's suspected me but retracted that suspicion after reading my posts, which makes me see him as trustworthy. However, he has also come under suspicion from Soccer and HB , both of whom I trust to some extent.
Rocket Guy2: Light scum lean. RG2 seems like the most likely scum candidate to me, based on Jorster and HB's arguments. It is conceivable that he might be town and just made a bunch of the same mistakes as me (that is, not posting a lot, and trying to be humorous in a way that apparently isn't good for the game), but it's unlikely that he's innocent.
Soccer: Neutral. More or less the same as Jorster.
Yimmy: Light town lean. He has made a moderate number of posts and arguments. he slightly suspected me early on but that was reasonable, and he apparently was satisfied with my explanations of myself.

———

Something I would like clarification on:

I don't quite follow this tactic you're talking about. How would Isa's vote for me cause scum to reveal themselves? I can understand that he might want to do it to see if I'd say something incriminating, but how would it force anyone else to say anything?  

VOTECOUNT OF THE DAY

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day ends in: February 28, 4:00 a.m. INTERGUILD TIME.

Mymop (3) - Isa, Rocketguy, Jorster
Rocketguy (2) - aych bee, Darvince
Jorster (1) - soccerboy
Soccer boy (1) - Yimmy

NOT VOTING:
atvelonis, Mymop

Nobody is due prods.
  

My intentions are to lynch scum and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of bubblegum

Soccer's point about what he thought Isa was doing was starting a wagon on mymop early without a whole lot of evidence, and seeing who jumped on to kinda get a read on who's eager to lynch and end the day early. I do, however, agree with hb's comment about it being weird that Isa can explain away rocketguy's scumminess with inexperienced townie, but isn't doing the same to mymop. Isa weigh in please

I kind of regret mentioning the Jester role, because people seem to have forgotten that there aren't any neutral roles in this game.

Either way, I feel that mymop has become a much more significant part of the town, and has explained his actions clearly, so the reasons why I voted for him are no longer valid. Unvote

I wasn't saying he was mafia at all. I currently think he's just bad town, (as I stated twice). I was telling him that his reason for not posting any thoughts was flawed

I'm not saying a scummy townie is good, I'm saying that it's better than one who posts nothing but fluff. Both will be lynched, but there'd be far less to analyze if it was only fluff. every vote would boil down to "yeah he's not contributing". Either way an innocent townie is lynched, but one will leave stuff worth investigating. The basis of my argument is that thoughts are better than fluff.

1) It's true that i forgot to take timing into account. Still, I wasn't bothered that you were agreeing with others, it's that throughout your posts there was very little substantial independent thought (when it comes to the game, not theory) at all in any of your posts.

2) I don't ask questions because I find something suspicious. I ask to assess if something is suspicious or to clarify something I don't understand. That may just be different attitudes, so I'll give you that.

3) I really don't think that a bold miller claim post 1 should be met with suspicion. I've already said why, but thinking about it more it's even bad from a strategic standpoint as if we got to lylo and nobody claimed cop the person who claimed miller should be lynched. (and i think Isa would be able to catch that were he scum.)  Either way, your post said "this might be odd but I doubt it". It did further discussion but it didn't specifically imply that you thought it was suspicious, just confused.

4) ok

this isn't my first game at all. I played the last interguild mafia as well as a couple games on mafiascum. I haven't played since 2015 though. I don't think you're being too forgiving though FWIW

on the subject of fos's
If nobody thought I was suspicious enough to vote for I probably wouldn't respond

thoughts on page 6 coming when I'm done with school

im going to have to substitute out. im in a bad spot in terms of mental health and cant focus on this game. sorry to everone involved for disappointing.

mod please replace me

sorry again

That's too bad. I hope you start feeling better soon. And don't feel sorry— your mental health is more important than a game.  

Read list:

1) Aych bee: Town. Relatively active and so far seems to be pretty pro-town; her analysis has been strong.

2) Darvince: Neutral. The natural conclusion is that his "lynch me" thing on page 2 was a joke. Beyond being kind of inactive, he hasn't done anything else that suspicious (nor anything that would clearly indicate that he's town).

3) Isa: Town. If Isa were mafia, I don't think he would have anything to gain with this group by revealing that he's the miller. His later comments seem to be pretty pro-town. Nothing he's done really seems like scum behavior; confident that he's town.

4) Jorster: Town. Been active with the interrogations, etc., and has made a lot of very good comments/bold claims that I think scum would be reluctant to make.

5) Mymop: Neutral. As I said earlier, I'm reading Mymop's comments as plain inexperience. The couple of weird posts he made at the beginning can be explained by unfamiliarity with mafia jargon and the tone of the game. Admittedly I probably have a certain level of bias here, but that's still my stance.

6) Rocket Guy: Moderate scum. RG made some semi-useless posts early on and took quite a while to give a genuine answer to criticism from Jorster. He made a bigger reply on page 4, but I didn't find this as informative as it should have been (e.g. not really explaining why he was being slightly evasive in the first place).

7) Soccer: Town. He's provided a lot of good thoughts so far to keep people on-track, including that win rate chart to discourage us from wasting our votes. I feel like that isn't something that scum would do? More likely, if Soccer were mafia, he would have tried to extend any thoughts of indecisiveness so that a vote would be wasted.

8) Yimmy: Moderate town. Most of Yimmy's posts have been trying to squeeze out answers from possible scum/encouraging more activity. Seems pretty normal?

I was under the impression that the FoS held a bit of weight. Since the consensus seems to be that only a vote would really have any sort of effect, here:

Vote: Rocket Guy2

Ninja'd: nooo Isa

Aw Isa, I hope you get what you need and start feeling better.

USE YOUR VOTES Rocketguy, if you unvote vote for who you think is next scummiest. Put pressure on people instead of just having an unused vote, if you're town

Vote: Rocket guy

NOTE ROCKET GUY IS AT L-1

Replacing Isa.
Feel well buddy!

Can I have a vote count please?

Until then, Vote: Atvelonis

It was difficult deciding who else was suspicious, it's not like I can vote for myself

Would you mind explaining why you suspect atvelonis? I don't see anything substantial about him in any of your previous posts.  

Honestly, it was really close, I was going through the posts, and I felt that the vote had to go to either Darvince or Atvelonis, but I feel that recently Darvince has done more than Atvelonis, so I chose him

I want to be bothered that your reads are based solely on activity and whether you agree with them, but then I remind myself that that was exactly how I behaved in my first game. Still fairly confident you're town.


It's entirely something scum would do as it seems helpful without actually helping anything. The knowledge that a mislynch is bad is common sense and I don't see how telling exactly how bad helps anything. It comes down to getting town read vs an easy mislynch, but pushing an easy mislynch would have consequences come D2.

update: rg still hasn't done anything without being explicitly told to do so. still too early to hammer though.

as it turns out inspecting reads lists isn't my strong point

okay but why

you're at l-1 play better

Okay that was a bit too agressive for my taste. You're one vote away from being lynched, you should probably be putting more effort in to your posts if you're trying to stay alive, which if you're town you should be. Please explain your reasoning for voting atvelonis.

Sorry about the lack of reads: had a large presentation today and was unable to post this in full.

As for my reads, I kind of put the members into two camps: active and inactive contributors.

Active: Yimmy, Isa, HB, Jory
Inactive: Atvelonic, mymop, RG, darvince

Of course, some within each group are more active/inactive than others.

The active camp, ordered my suspected town reading:

1. Isa (replacement to be determined):

At present, the most likely to be town. He has used this role effectively to put pressure on people without having to concern over seeming too blunt in being to-the-point.

I am slightly confused by his consistent disapproval of mymop. Initially, it was solely because of the extension of RVS, but I am curious as to if there is something about mymop's behavior that Isa picked up on that I did not. This could be just due to my comparatively limited experience.

2. HB:

HB has been a relatively active contributor. Even though she is new, she has definitely shown an attempt to better understand the game despite a few missteps, such as her comment about RG being jester, despite there not being one in this game. Her arguments so far have been rather clear.

3. Yimmy:

First non-RVS post: I thought this was odd.
In reference to Isa's miller claim:



He seems to be getting at that Isa is indeed the miller, meaning he would be town, but then says that it doesn't hint at his alignment, implying he does not believe Isa's claim. From his next post, he puts isa at slight scum. So, Yimmy does not like the discussion of Isa's role. He called the claim meaningless, except for the cop. I would argue that it is important for everyone, as having an extra confirmed townie is INCREDIBLY beneficial.



He theoretically could claim it if he were scum, but the general consensus seems to be that Isa is town and that this falls in line with his past play style. If you 100% do/do not believe Isa's miller claim, then you would believe he's town/scum. Are you simply unsure of his claim? Why is Isa neutral in your view?

Also, I wanted to address to you that there's no way I could've known if you played on mafiascum. I had specifically put "(I believe)" in my post because I was under the impression that this was one of your first few games but did not know for sure. I only wanted this as a baseline whether I should expect the others to play at the same level as you.

As for our small debate over what constitutes suspicion, I'm starting to understand your viewpoint and feel that it may just be a difference of opinions. I tend to view "suspicions" more as any inkling that anything opposite could be true. So, I ask questions if I'm suspicious in order to later assess if my suspicions are well-guided. In your regard, this is to determine suspicion; in mine, it is to confirm/deny.

4. Jory:

Has been an active contributor for sure, if not one of the most active. He has consistently pushed for more discussion in a way where I view him to be town-neutral until something occurs otherwise. My previous suspicions appear to be under a false pretense, so I no longer view him as being as scummy as I previously thought. However, I am still cautious. My knee-jerk reaction isn't to put him directly with town.

The inactive camp:

My feelings towards these particular individuals is not great. There is very limited evidence to go off with respect to how scummy they are. Mymop and RG were the two initially suspected of being scum because of their inactivity, but atvelonis and darvince have posted in comparable amounts/quality. Of these 4, there is a 50% chance of 1 being scum and a 21% chance of being 2 (assuming they were random). So, the problem for me is that all four appear to me very much the same. If one looks scummy solely due to inactivity, then all four should look scummy.

For me, the order of attempt to contribute to discussion has been the following:

1. atvelonis
2. RG
3. Mymop
4. darvince

For now, my vote has to go to Darvince.

Vote: Darvince

Darvince has made very limited posts. No post on page 5 to go off of. RG and mymop were both put under suspicion and have at least increased their activity as a result. Darvince, however, has not undergone any pressure and thus, his activity has stayed consistently poor.

His most recent post literally points out that he has done the exact same as mymop.



He points out that he doesn't want to be part of someone else's argument, but then directly goes to RG as his person of choice. Pressure is great, but you didn't add much in the way of thoughts.

As far as I can tell, between these four, nothing incredibly unique has stood out with regards to their playstyle. This concerns me because it effectively makes them indistinguishable and makes any vote appear no more than random to me. RG and mymop just happened to be the first targets. This is not to say that pressure should be taken off RG or mymop in favor of Darvince, but rather, in order to assess each one, Darvince needs a reason to not just coast along, as he has been doing. If he is indeed mafia, that coasting will allow his success.

I encourage any pressure towards these 4 so that singling one out becomes a matter of who actually looks suspicious versus who got stuck with the initial wagon (i.e. why mymop over rg? why rg over dar? etc.).

If anything in this post needs clarification, I tried to re-edit it with regards to the new posts, but I did start writing the full read list a bit prior, so let me know if any parts are unclear.

re: Isa. No need to apologize, your health should always be the main priority. Hope you get well soon.

@RG2: So... are you just gonna let yourself get lynched? In addition to explaining your vote, I'd like to see you actually try defending yourself. Even claiming inexperience (as Mymop has done) is better than saying nothing at all. You have done nothing to indicate that you support the Town's interests at all, which, considering that there are no neutral roles (thanks for the reminder by the way), says a lot. By this point, my only argument against you being Scum is the fact that Scum wouldn't act this apathetic towards being at L-1.

"this falls in line with his past play style"... he did the same thing as town once, yes, but that doesn't exclude him from doing the same as scum. I was unsure of his claim and seriously doubted that any discussion will help make me more sure of it. (although in my last post i realized that it'd be stupid to do so as scum so maybe i shouldn't have tried to silence the discussion)

on my first non-RVS post: What I was trying to say was the act of claiming miller isn't suspicious, but there was no reason scum wouldn't do it, thus null

RG still seems the scummiest of the inactive bunch because whenever pressured he makes a post that seems made to seem helpful, but are overall super meaningless (his "reads list" and his defense on page 4). Still, you're right that Atvelonis and Darvince need more pressure on them.

vote: Darvince