@jell:
The 'attack' was a bombing of one tunnel and one weapons warehouse; nobody was harmed, but I'm not sure this was the cause for it all, read this:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4303437,00.html
anyway - consequently more than 100 missiles were shot back. eventually Egypt somehow managed to get a ceasefire, but during the ceasefire more missiles were shot, so yadda yadda, it appears that now we've killed the Hamas' army leader, and because of that they declared war. I haven't talked with my gf in like a week

@flash:
beginning? lol
I have no knowledge on that subject tho.

K I wondered if this is the right place to post them or the jokes topic, and decided to post it here:
for those who don't know what it's about:
http://www.holesinthenet.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/293770_487183134637895_703149006_n_thumb1.jpg
http://www.holesinthenet.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/480974_486414104714798_760804611_n_thumb.jpg
(not a joke)

and then comes some dark humor!
http://www.holesinthenet.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/14320_558451477505513_2085263256_n_thumb.jpg
http://www.holesinthenet.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/598339_520948227917185_720054370_n_thumb.png
http://www.holesinthenet.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/483056_10151450672034505_429337607_n_thumb.jpg

Those attacks on the Gaza strip for which the missiles of the past few days were retaliation killed at least five and injured thirty, including children.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111015281390679.html

did you just seriously link me to al jazeera?  O_o

even in al jazeera tho they admit that we were reactive. listen carefully to the video in the link you posted.


On other news, alarm was sounded here a while ago. all family and dogs in the shelter etc. never imagined their missiles will get even here.
in my opinion, when the first missile hits Tel Aviv or is aimed there and intercepted, a full scale war will rise :/ we have supposedly bombed their storage of long-range missiles today, but, well, supposedly. 10 minutes ago we saw a live interception of a rocket on TV, lol. the staff disappeared running to shelter but the camera was still there and on

Al Jazeera is a legitimate news source, by far the best for any news from the Middle East. And yes, they say the Israeli attack was a retaliation. A retaliation for an attack on a military group which caused four injuries.
Call me crazy, but retaliating an attack on soldiers during a war where nobody even got killed by killing and injuring civilians and children is a bit disproportionate.

Three weeks ago there was a seize fire between Israel and Palastine. While it is true that Palastine militants fired missiles into Israel within 72 hours of that seizefire, they only injured three people. And during those same 72 hours, Israel commited multiple airstrikes which killed eight.

It is a bit difficult to sympathize with Israel when they go on a murderous rampage every time a soldier gets hurt.

Press Censorship in Israel is comparatively rampant, doesn't make me surprised that he believes Al Jazeera is an illegitimate news source. The true crap news sources are Huffington Post for te left and Fox News for the right.

I never said it was an illegitimate news source, I was just surprised, since all I hear from them is in arabic (because it's on TV). never figured they'd have an english site >_> btw flash, censorship in israel is almost nonexistent. even when something is censored, there usually is a bypassing, stuff like 'court ordered not to say the name of the one who got killed', and then a week later when the court order is expired, the name is released.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Censor
according to wikipedia, it is very very limited.

back to jell:
now what you're saying is that the israeli response is disproportionate. many people say that, in my opinion it is completely wrong. this is people's lives here being talked about, not a punch to the face. SO WHAT if they fail to kill us? they lauch thousands of rockets in attempt to do so, right? if a person comes to you and shoots you in the head, but misses, and hits your ear, do you, while he reloads, go and slap him in the ear? no sir.

the point about injuring civilians and children - this is collateral damage, what can you do. the IDF is the most moral army in the world; even at war we only target military spots - launching squads, weapons storages, etc. on the other hand - they don't aim at all. just in the general direction of israel, hoping to kill as many people as possible - this includes children and civilians. I don't know if you know this, but during Cast Lead, the IDF *literally* informed people in certain locations that in 30 minutes the place is going to be bombed, so move out, to prevent civilian casualties.
so my point is that in my opinion, we are TOO moral. during the last 12 years there is an average of around 3 rockets hitting israel PER DAY. for 12 years. each day. if any country in the world would be in our place, Gaza would have been a huge parking lot.

I'm with Shos on this one

Reporters without Borders report places Israel 92nd in the world. That's pretty bad censorship.

there's a difference between not allowing foreign reporters and censoring the israeli media >_>
can you link me to know what you're talking about? O_o

anyone getting in shape? me too!
every short while you hear an alarm, run and grab all the dogs and go to the shelter with mom, dad and his assistant.

:\

Shos, where in Israel do you live?

Shos, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

I'm not certain how reliable this source is, not because of it being wikipedia but because of the numbers. For instance, you can look at the US and it says that we've have 3 times more censorship in the press now than in 2009, which doesn't really make sense.

It is moderately reliable. Not totally, but moderately. I think it is more than fair to say thy Israel has a serious problem with how it deals with its media. Also, newsflash, American media sucks. I don't know what exactly caused the dip, but he actual ranking is more than justified.

I rather not say of course so I'll write Rishon Lezion. it's in range, but we have like 1 minute to get to shelter(that's a LOT in comparison), so we're not really in danger directly. I've seen live three intercepts from my window, heard like a dozen booms, and ran to shelter quite a lot today :\

well duh, it is a compared-to- table. there are plenty of countries which have absolutely no security issues etc, and obviously they appear at the top.

I'd say that those are the first 41 countries.

then there's a long list of countries of the same color (israel included), so this makes sense.
I noticed that israel appears twice: the israeli part (92nd) and the gaza part (133rd). found it funny

other interesting stuff I noticed: look at the past of Egypt, Sudan, and Bahrain.

why doesn't it make sense? wasn't there a great deal of stuff happening in Iraq in that time that now isn't?  /is unknowledgable about USA

I don't think so at all. nobody, including everyone, has any problem with the media *inside* israel. we always only complain that the way Israel presents itself to the world is really bad.

today for example there were live shootage of missiles being shot at israel, it was all like, "here we can see 8 rockets being shot, this is live, watch how Iron Dome intercepted 5 of---" and then they run to shelter XD
the israeli reporters really don't have any limitations. they get to danger zones by themselves, set up near a shelter, and so, they can shoot for 10 seconds since the start of the alarm. if you have 15 seconds of safety to get to shelter, then they setup near it, film 10 seconds, and then run inside..

I'm pretty sure people do given that this information was taken from journalists inside the country.

@shos
Yeah, think about it. If we were censoring stuff then, but aren't now, that would mean it should go down. But really our censorship laws havn't changed at all. Really the only things our media can't do is pornography, extreme gore, and excessive swearing on public airways. Sure, we have top secret, classified military and research stuff going on, but if the UK journos think that their government doesn't, that just means that american journos are smarter than they are.

Found this (old) gem:
http://gofbw.com/News.asp?ID=8473

Basically, parents should be free to tell kids whatever they want and reality shouldn't interfere.  

That's not what that says at all, especially in context. The compromise that Rubio was supporting simply said to distinguish evolution as a scientific theory. And maybe you think that evolution is the sole and complete reality: fine, teach your kids that, but leave my kids to me.

A theory just like gravity?

Evolution is a scientific theory. Anyone who disagrees has no idea what a scientific theory actually is.

http://www.onelife.com/evolve/darwin.html
An interesting and on topic paper to consider.

Note that their definition of the difference between animate and inanimate is flawed, but I think it still holds if you are more accurate.

So, "we attack Darwin and scientists, but evolution is true, but it was God all along"? That's nothing new, several people have this position. Eventually all religions will have to adopt this position, or be ridiculed, as the support for science grows. Nothing different from the two examples given in the text. The catholic church already recognizes evolution too for what that's worth (heavily modified to fit their religion, of course), so yeah.

My turn to link something related to evolution and religion:
http://www.geosociety.org/gsatoday/archive/22/11/article/i1052-5173-22-11-4.htm

That is a critique of a literal great flood. I'm not seeing evolution in there.