A new year, time for a new idea.

Normally I would make such suggestions in the Staff forum. However, considering the unanimous support I got for the Interguild League from the staff and the disaster it eventually turned out to be, I will bring this up here instead so everyone can discuss.
Another thing of importance, I need your feedback. I don't need posts that say just "Great idea!" or something. I want your actual opinions and suggestions. Tell me what you like, what you hate and what you think should be changed.

Now, on to the actual subject.

What are Interguild Tournament Points (ITPs)?

ITPs are a permanent score system across all tournaments and other events. Based on how well you do in a tournament, IO or other site event you score points. These points are accumulated across all tournaments and events, so there will come a more permanent ranking of the members.
The name can always be changed. We can name it InterCoins, Dubloons, whatever.

Why should we have ITPs?

The most obvious reason is obviously that this allows results to be carried over between tournaments. Instead of a single glory, each tournament allows you to contribute to your total Interguild ranking. Hopefully this will will help motivate people to enter more events.
However, perhaps even more important, this allows more types of events to be held. In the past it was only possible to hold events that ended in a simple ranking. But with the ITPs, a whole new range of possibilities opens up. We can hold a Poker style game where you bet your ITPs to earn more, but risk losing them. We can have events where the pay-out is more dependent on exactly how well you do instead of just what place you end. We can even have "Mole" type games, where the group has to complete challenges for currency, but there is one Mole player whose goal is sabotage the group.

Basically, this allows more interesting events to be held than just tournaments and variations thereupon.

How can we earn these ITPs?

Nothing is set yet, but I have some ideas.
-Obviously, tournaments. First place wins 1000 ITPs, second place 500, third 300, fourth and fifth both 100, or something like that.
-Large IO-like events. You can win ITPs for winning individual rounds, with a larger sum if your team wins the whole thing.
-Permanent challenges. Just some stuff so everyone can earn a starting capital to enter events that either need an entry fee or that require betting. It can be stuff like "have a topic from you reach 100 replies", "be online for 23h59m" or "be featured on the front page Featured Content". I heavily suggest we don't include stuff relating to postcount, number of levels/videos, karma or level/video ratings, as these are too prone to being abused. I'd rather have little content of high quality than a lot of content of low quality. The karma and video/level ratings are too dependant on other people and I fear that it will lead to people anti-voting just so people won't get the challenges.
-Hosting or judging stuff. We want to encourage people to host these events and to be honest I want to join something sometime. So people should be able to earn ITPs if they host stuff or if they help with the judging. Otherwise the people who host a lot won't ever be able to win any points.
-Mafia and other such games. These don't directly have anything to do with the goal of the site, but still help generate a lot of activity and are simply very much fun. They take up a lot of time and energy so should be rewarded.

With these ITPs we can also do a lot of new events. For example:
-Interguild Poker. Every person gets two "cards", which can contain games, genres, motives, level structures and other level elements. Just like with Texas Hold-Em Poker, there will be 5 cards open cards, with first 3 flipped, then one, then another one. The betting happens like ordinary poker.
At the end, each player selects up to 5 cards from their available 7 (2 in their hands, 5 on the table) and uses them to make a level. The levels are judged based on their quality, how well they follow the cards and possibly additional bonus points based on the suit or value of each card.
-Interguild Survivor. The players are split into two groups. Every week, they must compete in a challenge. With every challenge, the group can win points and the losing team has to vote one player out off the game.
-Interguild's Mole. Survivor meets Mafia. There is one group of people. Every week they must complete one challenge, with the pay-out being determined how well they do the challenge. However, there is one Mole. He gets points for sabotaging the challenges. The more points the other players miss out on, the more points the Mole collects. At the end of every challenge the players have to fill out a questionaire regarding the Mole, with the last question being who the Mole is. The person with the least correct answers is eliminated from the game, until at the end only the Mole and the winner remain. So even if you are not the Mole, it helps to let other people think you are the Mole so they will base their answers on you, get them wrong and get eliminated. The winner gets points based on how well everybody did on the challenges, the Mole gains points based on how terrible everybody did on the challenges, but loses points based on the number of people who have suspected him as the Mole. It is a game as much about bluff and deceit as about actual skill.
-General betting. If you don't enter a tournament, you can bet on who you think will be the winner.

Won't the high scores of veterans discourage new people from joining?

Yes, people may see the how high the scores of people like Harumbai might be and think they won't have any chance of ever catching up. So, we will also keep seasonal scores. At the end of every half year or something the points that were earned during just that period are tallied, to determine a seasonal champion. Hopefully this will encourage people to keep joining.


I think that covers everything I wanted to say.

tl;dr: I propose a system where you earn points based on tournaments, events and challenges. These points are used for ranking, but can also be used for gambling or entry fees for tournaments. This should both increase activity and allow more diversity in the events.

i personally like all these ideas. i'm sure this will increase level making activity. not really much to say... i like it. i'm thinking no betting though. with betting point greedy people might realize they can get points without entering the competition, and so they won't make as many levels. if we do this, we should defenitely increase the amount of authors a level can have

I personally don't think we should have a system of winners by total points, instead it should be how many points are gained. People should also be able to create, join, and leave groups if they want to, (provided there would be a maximum number of members). I personally don't like the idea of betting, or the idea of points going to groups. Instead it should be that the points get split among the members. I think that we should simply have a leaderboard of top groups (all of the members' points added together) and top individual players. People will automatically want to get the most points to get to the top of the leaderboard, and it would prevent one or two groups from dominating the competition. There should also be a whole new tab on the top bar dedicated to this- the creation, joining, leaving, and discussion of groups. There would be a sort of group chat system as well that would allow group members to talk to each other in private.

I don't like the idea of groups in general. They will force people to join a group; even if they don't have to, they will be pressured into it so they don't feel left out. I just think it's more fun to do stuff individually, with the exception of things like the IO.

We could have individual members and groups, but it would be nigh impossible for individual members to win.

i was thinking for every game just a random group would be chosen, then if people didn't want to play, they could say so and get a replacement. i personally think that kro's idea of groups would just overcomplicate things. how would you play mole? they would always just get all say... 100 points no matter what.

The first time I read the first paragraphs, I've instantly thought about those high scores of veterans being a problem, but it's covered at the last part of your post, so I guess it's fine. The ideas for the competitions are indeed interesting, but I'm afraid people who already made it to the end of the more difficult challenges won't be willing to do it again. (e.g. I'm not sure if I'd be ready to survive 24 hours again or get a video to show up in the 5 top rated videos once again) By the way, unless I missed something, some of the competitions are highly dependent on another people, so they can easily decide who has the bigger chance to win, e.g. having a topic with 100 replies or something. However, the entire idea is still quite intriguing.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

I was actually about to propose that we reintroduce the dubloon system. I'm also going to suggest that we do a shop sort of deal? It it possible to do something like

10000 ITP (or whatever amount/name) change colours of background. I'm not sure what is or is not possible, but I remember IceCaves had a shop option and some sort of snow theme, and I quite liked it.

ok, so in the mole game the mole gets all the points that everybody else didn't get. imagine there's 4 groups playing, and the mole is on group 4. now imagine that everybody did a terrible job . the mole would get tons of points, all going to group 4. even if we got about 2/3rds of the points, group 4 would have an unfair advantage in getting points.

We should hand out one dogecoin for each tournament point earned.

I think this has potential. I'm not sure what feedback I am able to intelligently offer; this is why I'm not the one who suggests these things. I do have a few thoughts, though.

Is this mainly meant to boost site activity in the realm of making more levels/entering competitions, or the overall aspects of the Interguild? I figured that the competition scene was beyond rejuvenation and the pace at which new levels are made are as good as we'll get. If a shiny trophy from doing well in the comp, usually a couple reviews on your entry, and probably a little karma couldn't sustain competitions, I don't see how adding another statistic will.

Although I do think applying it to areas outside of that could yield interesting results. Having some measure of status besides karma or post count that wasn't as reliant on popular opinion/pure activity may offer different results from what the current rankings do. Members would find it fun to see another dimension added to how to use the site, and it might increase activity in members who still regularly/occasionally contribute content to the site/participate in events. I don't think this will make the members that only seem to be here for the chatbox and MC or the retired/distant level makers rise, but it's good to keep the people who use the site frequently entertained. And this may open people back up to mafia games again or other games that might actually ******* finish if there was some sort of incentive to follow through with them (going back to the hosting part that you said).

I like the idea of gambling the points, or at least risk-situations that can give you a nice boost or really mess you up. Part of the problem with karma and post counts is that the numbers got so out of whack after a while due to people taking breaks, new members arriving, karma's original purpose evolving, and lots of activity occurring in the chatbox and on MC than in actual threads, leading to the point where karma and post  counts can still be used to determine an individual member's reputation and status on the site, but it's useless to compare them to other members' number because gaps have risen over time and the chances of someone passing up another are relatively slim. If other members are not comfortable with gambling-esque ideas, we at least need to try and keep the competition close.

Feedback is helpful, but it will ultimately be up to the member's to use it if it gets implemented. Me personally, I don't see such a system impacting the rate at which I make levels. I may try to enter a competition every now and then, but I'm pretty much past the point where I can whip up a level quick n' dirty in a limited period of time with a specific theme to it in mind and still enjoy creating/playing the level. Especially with school going on. But I shouldn't let this hold everyone else back; I'd love to see competitions up and going again, and I'd be happy to judge. I always remember being excited about them when I was younger and maybe they would motivate younger members who have shown they can make inspired levels, but aren't confident in their craft to put themselves out there. I do see myself giving more events a crack if there was some angle like points involved, which would probably lead to increased participation all around, and maybe improve the event's chances of properly ending. I don't the problem with giving it a try. I ultimately don't see it boosting activity, but maybe making the site more fun in a different way.

Just saying, whatever these points are going to be called, (I propose Cocomo Points) they should be listed only in your profile so the stats under your avatar don't get too crazy. There's already five stats and the PM-EMAIL thing along with Currently Online if the user is online, and if we added more to that list it would seems a bit too chaotic to a new member. Also new members would have no idea what they're about if they're called doubloons or something else HATPC-related. We should do something universally understood (Like Cocomo Points) so new members could get an idea of what Cocomo Points do right away.

This also seems reminiscent of Karma... And I don't think we need TWO Karma Systems. But maybe Cocomo Points could buy you things, like for your profile possibly. (e.g. Higher character limit for signature/profile or something) And we could have a separate list of custom awards involving Cocomo Points. I dunno, just it seems like Cocomo Points' only purpose so far is to get them and to have more than everyone else, which is too similar to Karma.

There would still be 2nd, 3rd, and 4th places. And also, if everyone did a terrible job except for this "mole" (I still don't really have a clue what you're even trying to say), then the mole would be the only one to deserve points.

so, in mole, the mole gets all the points everybody else didn't get. so say we could get a max of 100. the mole did absolutely nothing, and we still only got say... 65. those other 35 points would go to group 4 no matter what. if you don't know how mole works, read the post!

Can you please say this in a way that makes sense? I have no idea how this applies to what I said.

so say there is 4 groups. only one of them has a mole.

so, as this says, the mole gets all the points that everyone else didn't get. so, what if the mole did nothing, and the team got, say... 3/4th's of the points. that last 1/4th would go to whatever group the mole is on.

The group would be able to kick him out for not doing anything, and replace him with someone else. In addition, if he were to be in the group, he would most likely be encouraged to participate because if one member did nothing, it would be very hard for the team to win.

I remember there was a really good Minecraft series called the Mole and it actually worked really well

The shop! I like the idea of having a shop. So what can we buy there? Backgrounds, new chatbox designs, and other stuff I think.

The old Interguild had a shop where you could customize your posts. Unfortunately, it led to stuff like bright green post backgrounds with bright purple text. Not nice on the eyes. At least there was an option to turn off all post effects.

I think that it would be interesting to have other bonuses, such as some ways to customize your profile and exclusive smilies.

All this talk about exclusive features is good; it'll lead Livio to think "this site is damned ugly" and actually make the new Interguild.

Re groups: I personally don't really like this idea. I want this to be accessible for everyone and forcing people to join groups doesn't really help with that. Furthermore I'm afraid that this will just cause people to band together in a closed group without actually interacting with everyone, a bit like with the current Thomas/Darvince/Jorster/Binary gang. Finally, I want to experiment more with the group events. Aside from the mods currently assigning the groups, I also want to experiment with a few group leaders draft picking their teams from the entrants or with the entrants making their own groups. All in all, I don't think permanent teams or groups are such a great idea.
However, separate from this some sort of Guild system might be a good idea. Allow people to make Guilds for just about any subject to discuss things in private. I also think it would be nice to allow people to join multiple of these Guilds. However, that is a completely different subject. If you like the group idea and think there should still be something like it even if it is unrelated to this ITP system, I recommend you to make a discussion thread about it.

Re already completed challenges: If we incorporate some of the current trophies into challenges or if people can prove through screenshots or such that they have previously completed a challenge, I have no problem counting the challenge as completed for them. It will probably be a very long time before Livio will automatize this, so at first it will all be done manually.

Re shops: We tried this on the Old Interguild and it wasn't such a success. The different colored posts at least were terrible. They often clashed and completely messed up the site. If you don't like the lay-out, you could ask Livio if he can allow users to customize it, but I feel this should be available to all users. I feel this way with most features, it should either be available to all users or it should be made available at a certain user rank, after a set amount of posts or account age or something.

I will now respond to some more specific things:



I'm going to be honest here, my main motivation behind this system is that it allows a lot more types of competitions to be held, such as the poker game I mentioned in the OP. I did make some changes and additions to my original idea with the hope that it would increase activity and competitiveness to the site. It will hopefully also motivate the users to host more things, but again, this is just hope. I have no idea how everything will turn out, but I don't think it can hurt the site.



Karma is a measure of popularity and quality of your posts in the forum. The ITPs would be a measure of success and competitions and games. They are both simple measures, but they are gained through different ways, like post count. I do agree that we shouldn't overdo it with all the points and statistics, like on the Old Interguild with post count, Dubloons, Gems and GAWAs, but I think if we leave it at only post count, karma and ITPs I think it will still be manageable. I guess the ITPs could also replace the current award system, which reduces one more statistic.


And regarding the Mole and betting games, those were just examples of new types of competitions that could be done with such a system. The specifics of such games shouldn't be discussed here, but can be discussed if this system is actually implemented and we decide to organize something like it. You can bring competition ideas up if it helps the discussion regarding ITPs, but the actual viability of these things need to be discussed separately.

I feel a bit disillusioned with these sorts of threads. We could all support it and it might not happen anyway because Livio seems to be really busy these days. Not that I’m holding it against him of course, I know what it’s like to not have any free time. But I’d like to see him acknowledge this and chime in on whether it’s something he’d eventually have the time/motivation to implement before I start getting tangled up in the details.

It seems like a good enough idea though, a nice way to pump some enthusiasm back into competitions and to raise the stakes. There are definitely a few ways a dedicated competition metric could be useful – creating consequences for bailing out of mafia games and stuff like that. I like the idea of rewarding/paying judges too. The tricky part would be giving the points value outside of ‘look at all mah points’ (although that worked well enough for karma).  Reintroducing some kind of shop/barter system could be interesting but that’d have to be part of a more dramatic site overhaul.