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| Level Database Reform 2010 Wednesday, July 7, 2010 7:19 pm — Posted by Livio |
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I'm currently making a lot of big changes around the level database, and I will post my progress in this topic and periodically ask for you opinions on things. First of all, let me say what I plan to do.
Reform Goals and Ideas:
- Improve the level-browsing experience.
- Attempt to make a much more sleek user-interface without clutter.
- Fix everything wrong with the Favorites feature
- Add a queue feature.
- Link levels with all archive videos that include them.
- Make the CaveList run out of the same database table that levels are kept in so that when you search for a level, it simultaneously searches through the cavelist.
- Give each level a preview image, similar to the video archive.
- Add more game-specific settings, such as:
- A field for N replay codes (sorry video archive)
- Recommended vehicle for Free Rider 2 levels
- Add support for files that you upload straight to the site, and make them mod-approval-required in order to prevent the possibility of a virus spreading.
- Make easier and faster the process by which you upload levels for games that are not yet logged in the database.
- Let people do searches through levels that have won awards.
- Maybe add a field to the "add level" page that lets you specify which account a HATPC level is uploaded to. It will then run the cavelist code through that username so that its info is updated in the cavelist.
- One day make map/preview generators for more games, such as N, Free Rider 2, and Super Mario Flash.
- Finish this as fast as possible so that I can make a new video archive.
Right now, as my first step I'm focusing only on design and usability. I'm running a rather sloppy test file on http://www.interguild.org/levels2. The black squares represent preview images. I'm currently experimenting with an idea to show some game info and other links whenever you have a game selected, and I'm not sure if it's a good or bad idea. I also removed the color around level ratings and difficulty ratings in an attempt to make it all look cleaner and more professional. Things still look a little cluttered, so I'm gonna have to experiment more with some of that stuff.
Anyway, comment on what you think so far, make suggestions, and propose ideas below.
User Comments (46)
| soccerboy13542 | ||
| ~*~Soccer~*~ Karma: 450 Posts: 4466 Gender: Male Location: 1945 pm | email |
Ever since you became a staff. You are a staff, right? Staff are the second highest. Fürher is the highest. 'Livio' said: You know, I was thinking of getting an internship at Microsoft, but I'm not sure I want their lameness to rub off on me. | |
| Livio | ||
Age: 31 Karma: 470 Posts: 9620 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, USA pm | email |
'Isa' said: Whatever you do, do not include level title, as that may change and screw over links already posted. I'd go for number 1, but 3 works as well. 'Livio' said: The ID number must be included to ensure that the link will always work, even if the title of the level is ever changed. 'Isa' said: 'soccerboy13542' said: I've got an idea, when you post a level you are allowed to also link your own image url. I agree with this. 'Livio' said: I think it would be smart to let people upload their own images, but we'll have to approve them the same way we approve videos. 'Livio' said: I think I'll even let you upload multiple pics for a level, especially since it's hard to tell what the level for most games is like before you open it. Maybe a limit of like 4 pics aside from the preview pic. 'jellsprout' said: Instead of hannah-and-the-pirate-caves, use hatpc. For urls abbreviations are much more convenient. | |
| Isa | ||
| No. I'm an octopus. Age: 31 Karma: 686 Posts: 7833 Gender: Male Location: Uppsala, Sweden - GMT +1 pm | email |
Livio, why don't you restrict the usage of Img tags as well? You're being WAY overprotective here. If you ask me, we shouldn't even need to approve videos, seeing as we don't need to approve levels. | |
| Livio | ||
Age: 31 Karma: 470 Posts: 9620 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, USA pm | email |
It's one thing to post inappropriate pics on the forums, but another to have them uploaded to the site.  And it's the same argument for videos. If someone posts a link to an inappropriate video, then blame the poster of the link, but if you were to see it embedded on the site, then you may blame the site (unless you're an experienced member and know how things here work). | |
| Isa | ||
| No. I'm an octopus. Age: 31 Karma: 686 Posts: 7833 Gender: Male Location: Uppsala, Sweden - GMT +1 pm | email |
Quote: I've got an idea, when you post a level you are allowed to also link your own image url. Uploaded to the site isn't mentioned here. Soccerboy suggested linking to existing images, not uploading them to the site. It's the same thing with videos - we don't upload them to the Interguild, we're embedding them. The videos doesn't belong to us in any way and can't get associated with us. | |
| Livio | ||
Age: 31 Karma: 470 Posts: 9620 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, USA pm | email |
well, right now you can do that, but not for the official preview image of the level. Images linked to from outside aren't always reliable and may go down in a few months, so I'd rather have it uploaded to the site. I guess we could let people link to preview images as long as the staff uploads it to the site later. But we would have to have something to tell us that the image isn't an interguild image, like some kind of icon, so that the staff can easily find them. And I guess it could also protect our credibility, if regular users knew the image wasn't uploaded to the site, should anything bad be uploaded. Maybe.... | |
| Livio | ||
Age: 31 Karma: 470 Posts: 9620 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, USA pm | email |
the new level database will have an "Unsorted Games" section, where all the "empty" games will be put into, rather than linking straight to them all around the site. I was wondering what we should make the minimum amount of levels you need to get a game out of the Unsorted list, so I made a list of all the games we have now and the number of levels in each of them: Code: title leveltotal Line Rider 0 Ninja plus 1 Super Mario World/Lunar Magic 1 Free Rider 1 Shift 2 I Hate Traffic 2 Zelda Classic 3 Scriball 3 Pyro II 3 Crush the Castle 3 Gravitee 2 6 Gravity Grid 6 SeppuKuties 7 Electric Box 8 Aeon (Demo) 9 Knytt Stories 11 Splitter 2 12 Super Stacker 2 12 Amberial Axis 28 N 50 Red Remover 53 Super Mario Flash 58 Free Rider 2 72 Hannah and the Pirate Caves 2247 My first impulse was to make the minimum 5 levels, but then I thought that ZC didn't deserve to be in this category, so what about 3? Then that got me thinking that any one user could just come to our site and start uploading their own levels for a new game they added and they'd instantaneously bypassed the minimum. So under that idea, maybe the minimum should be 10. It's a nice, easy number, but wait, Aeon, Electric Box, SeppuKuties, and Gravitee 2 all under Unsorted? But perhaps the minimum could be a source of motivation for the community to make more levels for certain games they think are good and deserve more recognition. What are you thoughts on this? | |
| canadianstickdeath | ||
Age: 35 Karma: 350 Posts: 2990 Gender: Male pm | email |
First thing, it should go by the level/video total, not just levels. This way, Line Rider doesn't look like crap, and ZC is now above that "5" that you were looking for. Lol, the only ZC levels/videos on this site are all made by me (another video is coming as soon as the results are released, btw), but it's obvious that this is a game that it'd be worth it for people to put a little more time into, I think. So the system is this: we can put whatever games we want into the categories, if we feel that the game deserves it. Maybe a page that we can go to view some various stats about all the games we have on our site, would be helpful, and would allows to make more informed decisions about what games are popular enough to warrant being featured. | |
| jellsprout | ||
| Lord of Sprout Tower Karma: -2147482799 Posts: 6445 Gender: Male pm | email |
Instead of total levels, you can do amount of people that have made levels or videos for the game. If one person makes 5 crappy levels for a crappy game, it shouldn't get its own section. But if three separate people each make a level for a game, it should. So my suggestion is, if three different people have made a level or video for a game, it should get added. If less than three people have, it shouldn't. Although this means ZC doesn't get added, we only need one more person to make something for that game for it to get added. Spoiler: | |
| canadianstickdeath | ||
Age: 35 Karma: 350 Posts: 2990 Gender: Male pm | email |
I disagree with any system for adding games other than "at the discretion of the staff". | |
| Livio | ||
Age: 31 Karma: 470 Posts: 9620 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, USA pm | email |
I like jell's idea. I think I'll do that. | |
| Livio | ||
Age: 31 Karma: 470 Posts: 9620 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, USA pm | email |
Do you think we should have some kind of feature in the new level database that would prune out all the "bad" levels? I'm thinking of a system where users can vote for a level to be set to be pruned, either on the basis that it's spam, or just not worthy of being kept. To avoid flaming, only mods can see and approve which levels can be marked as prune-worthy. However, pruning will only happen periodically, such as once a month. And even then, only levels that are a certain age old, such as 3 months, can be deleted. And perhaps even the author of those levels may be notified prior to the pruning, and they will have a certain amount of time to object to the pruning before it gets deleted. This will hopefully help us avoid the common problems of many user level databases in which the number of unworthy levels far exceed the number of worthy ones. Your level will get pruned if the community thinks it's unworthy, but even then, you can object to the deletion of your own level, only if you're active enough on the Interguild to get notified about it. And to prevent ganging up on people, mods will have to approve which levels do get marked as prune-worthy. | |
| Isa | ||
| No. I'm an octopus. Age: 31 Karma: 686 Posts: 7833 Gender: Male Location: Uppsala, Sweden - GMT +1 pm | email |
I'm not completely against the idea, but would it be so that only levels with a rate under 2.0 or something get pruned? Removing levels without rates that are old will delete a lot of classics and I don't want that. Besides, Aeon is by far our (read:your) biggest priority now, so this isn't really important... | |
| Livio | ||
Age: 31 Karma: 470 Posts: 9620 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, USA pm | email |
I don't think it would be a good idea to automate a kind of pruning system that automatically goes after low-rated levels or anything like that. My idea is to remove levels that are really just not worth the database space and not worth people's time if they were to come across that level. And even if a level is not worth being played, we may want to keep it just for the sake of remembering some funny stuff about it. Like how we refused to get rid of DS Ducking. | |
| Yaya | ||
Age: 29 Karma: 747 Posts: 5367 Location: Ohio (US) pm | email |
Hmm, maybe. But honestly, currently 2351 of our 2770 levels are HATPC levels. Almost all our members that stick are from Neopets and usually come for HATPC in the 1st place, us Neopets-members get along, we understand that crappy levels will be crappy levels. Who at the moment gives a flying **** as to the quality of the levels in our database? We ignore the ones that deserve to be ignored. I guarantee you the total level numbers would be clobbered if we started to prune, even over a period of time; so many noobie levels, generic crap, old and obscure ****. Now I'd hate to get hostile, but this seems something a "well-known" and "popular" gaming site would do, to combat the amounts of levels pouring in on a DAILY basis. Sure, some levels in the database are even below COTW standards, but who takes the time to find em? Also, if you want to do this manually to avoid pruning "classic" bad levels, this sounds like a task that would be left to the lesser mods, and you know their "unique" "work" schedule. I truly cannot see this being needed/working properly until Aeon has came out and has managed to attract a level making fan base. Overall, no offense, like Isa said, this seems really unnecessary at the moment, worry about Aeon instead of this.  COMING SOON: A giant meteor. Please. Give me +karma. Give me +karma. | |
| Livio | ||
Age: 31 Karma: 470 Posts: 9620 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, USA pm | email |
it's funny how the title says "Level Database Reform 2010" and it's already 2011. I was just thinking of how annoying it is that if you were to go looking through random levels in the database, you have to deal with a lot of garbage before you see something that's worth playing. This happens when looking through other databases too, so I was thinking that we could potentially gain a competitive edge on them if we figured out a way to get rid of that annoyance. But yeah, that would be mostly effective for if the site gets really popular. Speaking of Aeon, I spent the last three weeks working on it, but it seemed like the Interguild really needed a revive, so I thought I'd come back online to write updates, and progress with the level database reform. I guess Aeon could bring the most growth, but that's only in the long term. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to totally abandon the site for such a long time to work on it. | |
| Quirvy | ||
| Â Â Karma: 655 Posts: 7753 Gender: Male pm | email |
'Livio' said: I was just thinking of how annoying it is that if you were to go looking through random levels in the database, you have to deal with a lot of garbage before you see something that's worth playing. Also, Yaya saying that some of these levels are below cotw standards is now even more insulting than previously, considering that current CotW's come from HatKC.  spooky secret | |
| Yaya | ||
Age: 29 Karma: 747 Posts: 5367 Location: Ohio (US) pm | email |
Lol, Quirvy, I forgot to consider that. If one is talking about Hatkc, then yeah that's a little harsh. COMING SOON: A giant meteor. Please. Give me +karma. Give me +karma. | |
| FlashMarsh | ||
Age: 25 Karma: 99 Posts: 2727 Gender: Male Location: UK pm | email |
I agree with Quirvy, however, we'll need to make it so we actually use the system (unlike praise). It may also take a while going through all the levels that are actually good. | |
| Isa | ||
| No. I'm an octopus. Age: 31 Karma: 686 Posts: 7833 Gender: Male Location: Uppsala, Sweden - GMT +1 pm | email |
The praise system is actually used in the CaveList. Going through levels may take a while, but it's a side effect that we'll have to live through either way. | |
| Livio | ||
Age: 31 Karma: 470 Posts: 9620 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, USA pm | email |
yeah it's probably better to have positive reinforcement for good levels, rather than negative reinforcement against bad ones. So I'll just focus on making the browsing options much more open and easier to use. But who knows when I'll get back to working on this... I think having some kind of praise-like system for levels would be good, though. It's basically a one-way vote to say "this level is good". It's easier to give out than a full fledged rate, so we could rely on praised levels to display a "great new levels" page. | |
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