Huh, Quirvy and I tied, go figure.

I'm going to apologize for Livio. This was a complete mess of a competition, and should have never happened. Several people may have deserved better rankings, but due to what I would call one of the most pathetic excuses of rules, and then to top that off, two people judging the entries in different ways.

All of the levels probably qualified by the poorly written guidlines:


Despite them all falling under the rules, one judge ranked all of the entries that he did not consider to be a trap, lower than the ones that he did, and the other judge also apparently punished entries which he considered to be more than one trap.

And to top that off, they both disagreed on whether some levels count as a trap, and despite this, they just combined the rankings, and then swiftly released the results and called it a day.


If you feel that you deserved a better ranking in this competition, send hateful PM's to Livio, and then maybe he'll fix this giant mess. But I doubt it.


About the only thing that we can all agree on is that Jorster deserved last place.

I bet Livio'll get lots of Hate Mail! XD

well yeah, the way i see it, the results are completely random. if we do consider the real levels as one trap, then how comes isa got first place? better than orcasaur, and harumbai, and ckjr??? and sup's level higher than harumbai too? and did you even look at sinpokman's entry? it's much better than some of the ones above it!

who else. oh me, of course should be in 1337, or 1, but that's not as cool. can't really say anything on quirvy's cave since i did have some stuff about it; and jorster...well...yeah. tratform is a good one-trap entry, but how comes it comes between orca and ck? o.o

This competition was a failure from the start with the poorly written rules. I am not satisfied.

This wasn't a Small Cave competition. So it should be pretty obvious that if you create a small, full level, you will be placed low.

It is also pretty clear none of you bothered looking at Jebby's articles on traps. From the examples it should be obvious what would be classified as a trap and what as a sequence.

WOW! Third Place! Thank you!! In my "self-rate" I still think I'm a bad cavemaker but in competitions there are really good caves/

yeah my first instinct was to redo the judging when I saw our differences, but then Isa posted the averaged results and said that he was too lazy to release them.

I did not, I said that I didn't feel like doing seeing as it looks bad if I released the results with me as a winner, given the controversial topic.

Also, the ties were broken by individual placements, as I pointed out, but you were too lazy to change a 3 into a 4 and a 5 into a 6, resulting in the ties we have now.

I thought you wanted to preserve the ties for some reason.

lol let's stop talking about this. We're making this comp look like a bigger fail than it already is.

That's because we look at the comp rules for guidance, instead of sorting through articles. And all the comp rules told us is not to enter a really big cave with one long connected trap. If you're going to use an article to determine what qualifies for a comp, you should at least mention it in the comp rules, or at least somewhere in the news posts that announces the competition, otherwise, people aren't going to think of looking there for guidance.

actually, jell even linked to the article in the topic and he pointed out which part of the article to look at. But then again, Quirvy does have a point b/c if it was that important, jell should've edited the news post.

YOU should have clarified the rules, because YOU started the competition.

yeah, but there's nothing we can do about that now.

There was something you could have done back then, just as you said Jell should have. I think it's ignorant of you to say that Jell should have updated the rules when you didn't do it yourself, despite seeing the post. You can't expect others to know what you were thinking when you started the competition, and just because Jebby said one thing doesn't mean that you agree with it, giving Jell even less reasons to update the rules.  

oh, that's not what I meant when I said that stuff about jell. I was responding to Quirvy's criticism of jell by saying that at least jell linked to the article and told people where to look. And then I counter-argued myself by saying that if it was supposed to that important, then it should've been edited into the rules. Yeah... I'm just being very confusing again..

anyway, I posted in the judges topic that we should try to rejudge the comp with a more unified method of judging.

I think your suggested method of judging boils down to this: Traps =/= Sequences, but Jell already judged based on that, so it's only you who have to re-judge.  

actually, my point was to follow what most people in this comp would think as one trap, which under my understanding would be that traps may equal sequences.

Then the rules are horribly written. Again.

Also, note that 8 of 13 entries was one trap, while 5 out of 13 was more of a sequence - a majority saying that traps =/= sequences.

The only sensible thing to do is to split the caves into two groups. One with traps and one with sequences. People may enter one of them with the level they submitted, but if a sequence level is entered into the trap competition, it may be disqualified for not following the rules. A one-trap level submitted to the sequence competition though should be judged the same way as a sequence level. I'm not really happy with that but I can't accept that all levels should be judged based on the premise that everyone knew that a trap really meant a sequence.

I also propose that no trophies are handled out for this competition due to the bad rules.

This is your last chance to avoid screwing this up, Livio, and you better take it.

lol this is already screwed up.

I'm not sure what you're proposing. You're saying that we should split up the entries into two different rankings? One for traps and another for sequences. However, it will be up to the author of the level to decide if their cave is a trap or a sequence?

how bout this. make a new comp instead of this, this time with EXACT definition of a trap. in other words, this will all be about original traps(not sequences). (and no repeating the same entries, even if they fit!)

this was what i meant wheni offered that comp the first place. it should be interesting to see what we haven't done yet.

that would only really make sense if we tried to extend the comp, but so far we've already held another comp since then. Maybe if we had a sequel to this comp, but that still wouldn't fix any issues with this one, except that we'd essentially be deciding to forget all about this.

well yeah, my idea was to forget all about this one. except for the record of entries.

lol I don't think anyone cares enough about this comp to go through the trouble of trying to sort this out anyway. The only people taking it seriously are probably Quirvy, Isa, Jell, and me.

I don't take this specific thing seriously, but i do take the concept that way. see, if we want to be organized and stuff, i think the comp organizors shold at least have a draft of the news post looked at before publishing. I would be more contributing, but really, calculus 3 sucks