Major issue with this new layout: when I click on any of the games on the list, it just takes me to a list of levels. If I was a passer-by who just wanted to try out some new games right away, this would annoy me and provide me with a reason to leave. I don't even know how to access HATPC through this site any more. The list of games should provide links and descriptions and THEN a list of our levels. It's just confusing right now. At least make an easy link to HATPC somewhere on the front page. Thanks.

Yes, this has been majorly bugging me. It takes quite a few clicks to open a Hatpc level. I suggest that Livio fixes this.

Yea i dont even know how to access HATPC game window l=now. i could yesterday tho what happened?

guys, in the games 'directory' or 'tab', there's a sign of two boxes near the game's name. click it.

No, there isnt

oh! then Ctrl+F5. I dunno, I'm still trying to make that more clear

alright, assuming everyone has Ctrl+F5-ed, I think everything should be clear the way it is.

From a new member's perspective, they come into the site, and they see: "a user-level database of all games". And when they roll over and see all of the games, it would make sense that it takes you to the levels of that game. But if they never heard of that game before, there is now a link on that levels page (it wasn't there before, b/c I hadn't finished reforming the database pages, which included a link) as well as to the "main page". Plus, if you're first exploring the GAMES tab at the top, you'll notice those icons next to the games, which by now after messing around with the css enough for it to work, it clearly presents itself as another link, and if you keep your mouse on it for a while, the text comes up saying "Click to play this game", plus it's the "new window" icon, so that further implies that you're being linked to someplace off-site. I think this is perfect.

The only issues left may be whether we prefer to link to out game pages as opposed to the game itself. I guess a counterargument would be that the best way to learn about a game is to play it, and that our game pages stink. That's why in my level-database redesign files, I've been trying to put the relatively little info we have about each game to display on the level database page itself. I'm not yet sure how it would work, since I'm still experimenting.

Bad idea, leave it as it was. sorry but i dont think it should be confusing in any way to the new-user (and to any of us, for that matter) just have it like you used to have it, i think.... But thats what i think. maybe we should vote

Not good enough for me. I want a big image-link that says 'What is this game?' and then another big image-link that says 'Play this game'. Or in the 'Games' drop-down list, further list extensions on each title with options for the level list AND a description AND a link to the game. This is very important to me. Or at the VERY LEAST, give us a nice easy link to HATPC. The fiddly scroll-bar combined with my annoying dot-mouse just makes me want to punch babies - bring back the user-friendliness!

EDIT: just noticed there's a 'play the game' button on the list. It still needs something to explain to newbies what the games are - the level lists are just a bit harsh for new members.

I agree that the Games menu now is very user unfriendly. I'd very much prefer it if clicking on the game didn't take you to the level database, but rather to a page with several links as in the old lay-out. There you can add the five newest levels and videos, but as it is now it is not practical.
And remove those HatPC links. They don't look good.

Also, I'm too lazy to fix it, but http://www.zeldaclassic.com/ is now a broken link. The site still exists, but I guess they let the redirect expire, or something...

I noticed that too, but I thought my internet connection was off or something. but where is the new site? Or I guess i could just look it up on google...

guess I'll remove the HATPC links then. It probably was a weird way to do it, anyway.

I dunno, I'm prioritizing frequent use over first impressions right now. The game pages kinda stink right now and you would probably only visit them once, when you're trying to figure out more info about a certain game. And especially once the directory idea gets up, you'll probably want to use the levels link more than the game-page link.

Here's an idea: add another icon, the information icon, which links to the game page.

hit Ctrl+F5, and look at the games list. I'm not sure if that's good or not. Maybe it just looks weird.

I'd prefer it if the level database was a seperate icon and clicking the name redirects you to the info page.

Why dont you prioritize frequent use and first impressions at the same time; so it gives a good first impression but is still easy to use frequently.

Lol sorry Accel, we know you mean well   

I think the main area of disagreement is in how we think the site should be fundamentally presented. As I explained in other topics, I'm trying to display the site as a level database first and a community second. And under that logic, it would make more sense to link to the level pages. You guys are probably still thinking of presenting the Interguild as a general community based on user-created-content games.

I've explained this before, but the rationale behind focusing on only one section of the site and telling people that it's our main thing is because I think that our advertising efforts would be more successful that way. I naturally have to think a lot about how to get more people to come here, and I often find that it's hard to explain what the site is fully about without having to write an entire paragraph on it.

Well, here's another way of explaining it. Say we tell people that the Interguild is a community dedicated to UCC games. That alone isn't going to attract much attention because people naturally do not get interested in communities; that is, unless it's about a topic they are interested in AND if that topic is not very popular on the internet (for example, people who like HATPC like the Interguild b/c we're the only HATPC group out there). While there might be people who like UCC games, I'm sure there are several communities out there for most of those games, individually. So telling people that we're a UCC community alone isn't going to do us much good. To get around that, we may try to point to all of the features on this site in order to get people interested, and our final approach would end up being something like: "we are a unique community about games based on user-created content, and we have several features to help you further enjoy these games and share your content with other members". It's not really something that would make anyone excited, unless maybe you went on to further explain what these "several features" were, and that could turn into a lengthy explanation.

On the other hand, we could present the site like this: "we are a flexible level database that allows you to upload content from any game, and we also track levels that were posted on other sites and forums; on top of that, we have a very strong community". This approach provokes more interest in users, since we are selling the service, rather than the community. We don't even have to mention the community aspect because when people visit the site, they might be impressed by how intertwined the community elements are in all parts of the site, thus further heightening their interest.

So if we take the latter approach--to present the site mainly as a level database--then it would seem natural to link to the level pages instead. Our target audience would be those who already know about the games that interest them. I imagine that a visitor's first impulse while looking at the games list would probably be to find the games that they know, so that they can see how many levels we have on it. To be taken to a page that explains what the game is may seem redundant to them. Only after having looked around the site a bit more will the user begin to consider looking at the other games in the database, in which case it would be helpful to have a page here that explains what the game is about, but just know that such a page isn't of primary importance.

This pretty much sums up my point of view.

What gave you the idea to present the Interguild as a level-database first, and community second? In fact, why go though all the changing of the layouts drastically like this, where we could just keep to the first Interguild's simple design, just with better changes?

I got the idea when I realized how hard it was to get people interested in the site by trying to explain to them everything the Interguild community is about, as I detailed in that third paragraph. After realizing that advertising the community was not the way to go, I thought it would be best to focus on the next best thing: the level database.

Catta Pay attention.

^^Livio's humoungous post^^


Now you've justified Livio, I would agree with promoting our level database rather than the 20 odd members who are reasonably active on the site, but I'm still not particularly hopeful that many people will come looking for our site this way anyway.

I almost said that, but if it came from me, that would sound obnoxious.
I'm not even sure what this question meant. But the main reason why I changed the layout was because I though the old one was ugly.

Twas not! > : (

if you prefer the old layout, you can still look at it here: http://www.interguild.org/oldlayout

That's where I moved all the old files in case I forgot something important.

Not that layout! The original layout of the Interguild FORUMS.

This I disagree with. Even if we present ourselves as a level database, the games themselves are still more important than the levels.

I personally say a mix between the two would be best. At the top of the page would be a short description of the game with several links underneath it, below that are two areas with the latest 20 or so levels and videos, and the level/video search options.