I think we should redefine the karma system. The use of the karma system currently appears as a system of opinion. The karma system is a way of defining a person's general attitude. A positive karma usually means that the person is honest, funny, and helpful. A  negative karma rate only means that the user is not as well respected as another user. If your karma goes down, it just means that the post is not honest, poorley written, or breaks a rule. If your karma goes down, do not post raging about it. Do note that the user's opinion is biased, and if you rage about it, your general reputation will decrease. Posts such as 'i don't like this' and 'i have cancer, so treat me well before i die' are examples of posts that would get bad karma.

That being said, I believe that the karma system should be redefined. I will press this matter against the staff. I will  

Stupid iPod Touch. I will hold on to my belief. I will make spelling mistakes.  

lol at the doublepost.

i agree with you here, but this is not redefinition. this is  exactly what the karma has been so far.

The karma definitely should be changed. It should not be based on opinion which is what people seem to be now. Opinions shouldn't be negatively rated because everyone has their own opinions and should be allowed to post it. It should be based on the quality, reasoning, and effort put into the post and should not include many spelling or other errors. Popularity is not what people should rate posts on. I got negatively rated in the random chat forum because I didn't understand a joke I never knew of and didn't even think was funny.

kro, by 'opinion' we don't mean that if the post claims something that in your opinion is wrong, you minus it. by opinion we mean that if in my opinion your post is helpful, funny, etc, or not, i shall rate it respectively.

about that joke, well, you can't blame us. it's called sarcasm, and it's widely spread in our world. thing is, that if someone uses sarcasm and the other doesn't understand it, it really sux, cuz you can't explain jokes and stuff. 'sarcasm - if you don't get it, DIE'...

so in that case, if anyone makes a completely long and serious post about a subject, when it's completely unrelated to what's been over there before, it's out of context, and therefore people may minus rate you. besides, you're not supposed to be given reason for the karma rate. if a rate has been unjustifiedly given, the staff will delete it, do not worry.

Ok, I have to admit, I knew it was a joke, but I didn't think it was funny. I really didn't, and never did. And I already knew what you meant in the first paragraph. In my post I just wanted to show something that I thought was bad rating.

well I find most jokes made by quirvy quite stupid and not funny, but since it makes others laugh, there's no reason for me to rate them... at all. or comment...

Okay, I'm not even sure what Rosabellis is suggesting. You're saying that we need to redefine it, where as instead of the general opinion towards the user, it should be the general attitude of the user? And we base it on basically the same thing that we do now? I agree with what shos said, that's not redefining the system.

As for what kroto said, you're saying that opinions should be protected, but every karma rate towards your posts are based on the rater's opinion.

If Dando weren't temporarily away, she'd tell you guys about how you're just overreacting to negative karma rates, and she would be right to. I'll admit that I get a little annoyed every time my karma goes down too, but a few karma rates don't usually dramatically affect ones total karma. Sure, that's easy for me to say, because I have over 250 karma, but still, if your karma is around 60, you shouldn't worry about 3-5 negative karma rates, because it's not a trend, it's just an isolated incident that will bump you're karma down temporarily, unless of course, you've always stayed around 0.


It's also worth noting, that if you're angry about getting negatively rated, about the 2nd worst thing you can do is post in the forums, "Why did I just get negatively rated?" From my previous experience of reading posts on the forums, that usually doesn't turn out well. If you're going to try to get an explanation from anyone, you should try in the chatbox instead, and keep in mind that the person why answers you might not be the person to rate your post.

Probably the worst thing you can do is the old "I DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT KARMA, PEOPLE!!!" act...

Oh, I almost forgot:

The only thing I'm suggesting is that we should either forget about karma or make karma relevant to the attitude and respectfulness (stupid ipod) of the user.

hmm, this is like the third time a user has complained about the karma system's existence.

Here's an idea, what if we got rid of the total karma count? Or rather than getting rid of it, we could downplay it by not showing it next to your posts.

Im not complaining, its just that its undefined. The idea.

Well, if you click on the question mark next to the karma arrows, you'll see this:If that's the only idea or purpose behind it, then there's no reason to take it like it's a popularity rating. It's just saying that you make noteworthy posts.

What about a mix of the 'dubloon' system and the karma system somehow?

The dubloon system WAS problematic. Think about all the karmabloons Silver would have from the Dream/Catworld posts.


As for this I had some problems as stated in a topic of mine on what I should rate (as in should I rate compassionately or directly) and I think everyone has their own views on how to use karma, but overall don't take it too seriously.

We could get rid of negative karma. Good posts get rewarded, but posts don't get anything. It hasn't really worked in the past anyway, as evidenced by Neezles and Thomas.

We need negative karma. Definitely. We can't go around thinking all our posts are good. Negative karma helps improve our posting quality.

yeah that's probably a better idea.

I have a suggestion about what to do with the karma system, too.

It really isn't that big a deal guys, but if you're just going to keep getting worked up over it, I guess we could consider some sort of modification. Lemme think...

Well, we should keep negative rates. Even if they aren't effective with some users, I do think the threat of them has influenced how some of our members post.

Okay, how about this:  whenever you get a positive karma rate, you receive one negative karma token, which gives you the ability to rate one post negatively. This means that a user who isn't very active or doesn't make many good posts won't be able to rate anybody down until they earn the right to. This also means that negative rates will be handed out less, and with more consideration.  That said, the karma system will still be based on opinion, so if someone rates you down and you disagree with it, you're still gonna have to just suck it up.

You'd be able to have more than one negative karma token at a time, of course, but we should probably limit it to only being able to have ten of them in waiting at once. And to clarify, having one of your posts rated down will not reduce the number of tokens you have.

As an add on to what dando says, I think that Neezles is somehow to come back we can rate as negatively as we want...?

Not likely, Neezles has taken over Peachland.

It's extremely easy for people like Dando and Quirvy to say 'oh guys karma doesn't matter chill etc.' but they are on extremely high karma when a couple of -karma doesn't matter, but with me, the most karma I have ever been on is 4. Ever. The thing is, unless you are Jell, karma effects your status around the site. You don't realise how carefully I have to look at my poats before posting, just to make sure someone doesn't get offended and -karma me. It's all very well saying things like this, but as almost the only active member with low karma, I feel differently about the system. The thing is, karma for me is basically restraining me from giving my opinion.

Karma shouldn't ever restrict you from posting, just to make posts that are not harsh or spam. You need to think about how your posts will be interpreted by other users to ensure you don't lose karma. In general I try not to give out many minus rates and do not minus posts if I have a differing opinion, but only if I feel the post has broken rules.

@Dando's post: Can we just give Dando automatic karma with her posts... It would be simpler.

Well, I did make an exception for people whose karma has always hung around 0, in my post...

Part of the Karma System is encouraging good posts over bad posts. Several times, I too have decided not to post something because I felt that it might receive negative karma. If your karma is around 0, and you've posted a good amount of times, that probably means that you either aren't making very many note-worth posts, which doesn't necessarily mean that you're a bad member, or you've made too many poorly thought out posts.


The main reason why you just lost karma, guyguy, is because you rated a cave 3/10, because you didn't know how to pass the opening trap. If you had at least removed the rate after discovering that it was actually possible, I probably would have given you a pity rate, neutralizing the one karma vote that had been placed at that time.

But, instead of removing your rate, you commented on how it was stupid that you lost a karma because of you didn't know how to beat the first trap (where in reality you more than likely lost karma because you rated the cave a 3/10 as a result of you not knowing how to beat the first trap in the cave)

To follow that up, you then posted "**** karma!" and spoke of how you wanted freedom(while karma doesn't actually oppress any freedom, it just encourages people to make better posts)

Then after another series of events, you commented on how you "don't give a ****"  about how someone minus rated one of your posts(which I personally didn't think deserved to be -1'd, so I neutralized the vote with a +1)


That whole series of negative karma could have probably avoided had you simply removed your rate, and didn't react to the negative karma rate.

Karma doesn't really limit your freedom. I mean, do you see how many posts people are able to make on the forum without getting -1'd? Perhaps I should make a blog post about types of posts people should try to avoid, to stay away from negative karma rates.

But then people wouldn't give out positive karma because of the fact they could get rated negatively if they did that.

Just a little thought.

I hope people wouldn't think that.... Not all karma votes have to be used...