FIXED

Guys this is silly.

Facts
Game Maker is easy to use. However, Livio does not have experience with Game Maker, so he'd have to learn.
HTML5 version *may* be coming out, which would allow us to play online.
Mac version DOES exist, so games made can be cross-platform.
Games similar to N / like N can be made.

Fiction
N was made in Game Maker.
Game Maker can, or will someday, export to Flash.

Dekudude, I don't think anyone thought anything in the Fiction part was true...well, except Cedric. Just throwing it out there.

Actually Deku both of the things under Fiction are facts.

I'm of the mind that the less people trying to have input in the coding of Aeon will make the game more cohesive and have one or two people who know what's going on rather than lots of people who don't know what's going on. If Livio knows what he's doing I think we should leave it there and prevent more debate on exactly how things should work which will slow us down.  

Fair enough. But I'm pretty sure those two are fiction, unless you have something proving otherwise.

Err... they're actually facts. Putting under fiction, "N wasn't made in Game Maker" means you say that it was made in Game Maker. Stop contradicting yourself.

Exactly!

Remember, double negatives are a no-no.

LOL OOHHHHH. Touché.

Do you really think that because N has a light gray background, and light gray is the default background colour in gamemaker, N was made in it? If anything this just made me more sure N was not made in gamemaker.

Yuggy, we've already cleared it up. Cedric was lying.

Oh yeah, wait did he add it to Wikipedia just to prove a false point?

Yes.

Okay serious discussion now.

Deku believes that it may be faster to learn GameMaker and try making Aeon with that than it is to continue working on Aeon as it is now. And I'd be okay with it if it turned out to be true, and if we really can make Aeon with GameMaker. But I'm really hesitant to try it since there's a big risk we may run into a dead end, or not be able to make the game that we want to make. If you think this really would be in our best interest, then I suggest you make an Aeon prototype in Gamemaker.

Right now I'm working on pretty boring stuff in Aeon, which is basically menus, how the game handles having multiple levels open (for the editor), and how the game actually loads the levels. The previous demos had quite a few ugly placeholders that allowed me to skip working on these parts, but it's about time they got done. Sometimes I feel like I should be working on "more important" parts of the game, but this just goes to prove the old rule of thumb that 80% of what makes your game fun will come from only 20% of the work put into it.

I can make up a prototype, sure. I'm not sure how to do the level editor stuff, as that'd be pretty advanced, though definitely possible. Maybe I'll do a little research, but I don't want to spend a million hours trying to figure out how to make something work if you don't want to fall through with the idea. I'll make something simple though, so you guys can see what Aeon might look like.

Also, would you be interested in outsourcing for graphics? I know Game Maker has a very active forum that would be willing to help, even though those people aren't actually part of Interguild.

Yeah, I never made a prototype. Sorry.

But I'd actually like to revive this discussion, if I may. I understand that Aeon is coming along very well (it's looking great!) but at the end of the day, if you look to the future, I feel like HTML5 is a better bet than Flash. To anyone who's up to date on technology: I'm sure you'd agree.

http://yoyogames.com/gamemaker/html5

See the above link. YoYo Games has OFFICIALLY released an HTML5 version of Game Maker, which means games made using the HTML5 version are cross-platform compatible, and also playable online. Furthermore, it would also be able to be ported to tablets, smart phones, and many other new appliances that are coming out.

If a team of us sat down and worked, I have absolutely no doubt that we could remake what Livio already has done in less than a month's time--maybe less, if the people working know what they're doing. =P We would be able to collaborate, so features could be made while Livio and others are busy, and then we can work on this almost as if it were a Wikipedia article. The one thing I wouldn't know how to replicate would be the fancy code system Livio set up, but if we made it more HatPC-esque, we could definitely get something working pretty easily.

Why, again, is it that you guys prefer to make this in Flash?


EDIT - PS. I'll try to start working on the Prototype, haha. I have something done already, but I want to fix a few glitches before I show you.

It's unlikely that flash will "go away" anytime soon. They've been saying that since HTML5 was conceived, and the specification for HTML5 isn't even finalised yet. I don't have anything to do with the Aeon project, but I do know that Gamemaker has a ridiculous overhead cost. Gamemaker really should be used as a prototyping tool and an educational tool; despite what their website claims, Gamemaker is not appropriate for a high quality game.
It's true that you can rapidly prototype with GameMaker; you could even get a fully functioning game, but the end result wouldn't be as fast as writing in flash.
That being said, the end result would be best if it were coded directly in HTML (with some scripts, of course). So, it's all a question of what you want to do; GameMaker will see an end product faster, but flash or HTML5 will see a better end product.

It'd be faster than Flash, especially considering we could have multiple people contributing and like you said, you could get a fully functional game out of it. GameMaker is way more than a prototyping tool from what I've seen.

Regarding the cost, we wouldn't really need to worry about it. We could buy one copy of the HTML5 version (that's not too much money if a few of us pitch in) when we're done making the game, and the rest of us can work with free versions.

Xyteran, didn't you go to University of Arizona? (Looking at your IP [sorry!], you post from Arizona State University which I assume is the same.) Livio is hosting a gaming club that has regular meetings. As far as I know, Snipereborn is a member of that club. You should join them!

That said...I'm not completely sold on buying a product for 100 USD that I'm not sure if I'd ever use - after all, we're several timezones away and communication is probably going to be an issue. Moreover, I'm not experienced with any kinds of programming above absolute basic Java and HTML. Also, would one copy of GameMaker be enough for several people? Are you sure that multiple people can use it?

I do appreciate your enthusiasm, don't get me wrong - I'm just seeing it as more than a little impractical.

Nah, they're different schools. It's kind of funny, really: my home is in Tucson, AZ, but college is in Phoenix, AZ. Livio's home is in Phoenix, but goes to school in Tucson. I can only imagine how many times we've passed by each other on the highway without realizing!

As for your concerns: communication and timezones I don't think would be an issue. By collaboration, I mean having multiple people working on their own things at their own times. One person might spend time making the boulders work, while I try to make the character swim, while Livio tries to figure out how to get taps working, etc. Once they do, they can share what they've gotten done, and transfer it to the main, official project file.

Regarding the price, I don't THINK that would be an issue. I'll go post on the Game Maker forums right now and ask. As it stands, the free Game Maker is more than adequate to make excellent games. If we all used the free Game Maker, we wouldn't have to pay a thing. (except for when we want to save / reupload the official game, in which case we'd use the HTML5 one) I'm assuming we can just load the project files into other versions of GameMaker, so we can all use copies of the free version. If not, things would be slightly more inconvenient, but just hardly--we would need two official copies of the game. One in the HTML5 version, and one in the free version. That way we can all work on the free one, and then when new features are set up, whoever has the HTML5 copy can manually make those changes in the official release files.

Regarding programming, we would honestly need VERY little, if even any. In fact, I'd prefer to use as little as possible, that way as many people can contribute as need be.

Do you have any experience with Game Maker? It's very easy to use. Once I get a basic demo running, I'll post it here so you guys can goof around with it.

You know...add me on Skype. I'm not entirely uninterested. I'll send you a PM.

How about Facebook? I only use Skype for my work.

https://www.facebook.com/Xyteran

Done. Sent you a friend request.

Me and Xyteran have spoken for a while. He'll try to create a platform engine for us to analyze and pick apart. I'm gonna try to learn enough about GameMaker to be able to help.

I encourage everyone to join in.

@Isa
I don't need to go to ASU. I already know how to read.
@Xyteran
Tehehe


@Everyone
There's a bit of a rivalry between our two schools, but it's all in good fun.
I would recommend testing out the free version of GameMaker and collaborating with that, then moving on to the paid version if you guys like it and what to go that route.

So what happens if somebody uses IE or something and this HTML5 does not work in IE? It's gonna take a while for good browsers to fully support HTML5 so 20th century browsers like IE will take 15+ years.

I've had problems with HTML5 games that I know of thus far (I only know of canvas rider). I remember I was trying to play that canvas rider level by Livio and I had to open firefox to play it (I typically use Chrome). As far as I know, HatPC works in all browsers. Game Maker is pretty versatile but something that is hand coded is more versatile so I'd rather stay with flash. Plus, wouldn't this be like the 5th time all work is thrown away and restarted? I bet it took neopets two weeks maximum to make HatPC... with flash.

FireFox doesn't support custom HatPC levels. Has never done and will never do so.

IE is steadily making changes towards the HTML5 standard, albeit slowly. Nobody should be using IE either way, though...

And @Sniper, yeah, I'm fooling around with the free version as of now. I recommend that everyone else does the same.