That does make sense. Power Boxes wouldn't be a fitting as far as powering up a space ship, and fuel/energy cells wouldn't be as fitting for run-down, deserted underground bunkers, or whatever we're passing them off to be.

I don't like the idea of different levels needing different resources. Every level should be the same, excluding tile sets, backgrounds, and music.

I think Electric Boxes could conduct electricity between them, with the electricity operating like spikes. However, if one is destroyed, or a switch is hit, or something, the electricity goes away. That could make interesting traps.

Well, actually, for shock crates, I was thinking that it conducts electricity in water and on metal crates bordering it, until destroyed.

Electric boxes and fuel cells are the exact same, except from different tilesets. Fuel cells are part of the urban tileset, with power boxes being part of all the other tilesets.

No, I'm talking about a different object.

There's the Power Box, a collectible, and the shock crate, a new concept. Although, we shouldn't be discussing it here, since this is the topic meant to be about collectibles.

I was talking only about the power boxes, actually. I didn't talk about the shock crate at all.

oh yeah. But I dunno, I don't like the idea of having to collect one thing in one level and something else in another level. I prefer it be consistent and simple.

When they touch the energy cells out of curiosity, and it increases the count which was previously for the power boxes, I think they'll be able to catch on that they're supposed to collect them.

And if not, then we can put a message box at the start of the first level or something.

No my argument isn't that it'll be confusing to the player. It's just less simple, and I know if I spent the entire game collecting power boxes, just to get to the last levels and being told to collect fuel cells, the change feels unnecessary. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't see any good coming out of this. Maybe there's some added variety, but it's not really necessary variety, it's just weird.

Collecting fuel cells seems kind of weird unless there's some kind of story behind it where you have to collect fuel for your spaceship or something. These items should differ throughout the story according to the current objective. Perhaps collect items of food for your stranded crewmates in one level?

???

lol, I thought that you said "No my argument is that it'll be confusing to the player..." I was wondering why you would say that following my post.

So what if it isn't necessary. That isn't even an argument. That's just "I don't feel like doing this because I'm lazy"

We'll introduce the energy cells in the tutorial levels, as a less common energy source or something like that, and maybe we could use them in some non-city levels, like the final level of a set or something. It's not just for the main levels, keep in mind, this allows for our users to have the option of making a cave with power boxes or energy cells as the collectibles  

Seriously, it just doesn't make any sense to have more than one time of treasure. Just say we need a ton of fuel cells to power the ship, so you can't leave the region until you have a decent amount. You're all overthinking this. There doesn't need to be logic applied to everything. It's just a fun little Flash game.

First you say it doesn't make sense, and then you say not everything has to? That's not a very solid argument, dekudude

But can you at least explain you to me what about having two different types of collectibles, never in the same level, does not make sense?

First, don't think I'm being rude or anything. Just giving my opinion.

Well, for the first thing, I mean you're trying to create different types of treasure to keep the game logical. I'm saying that's not necessary. THAT'S what I meant by everything not needing to make sense. Hannah gets treasure so she can be rich. Our guys get fuel cells so they can take the rocket ship once they get to it. Nice and simple.

The reason I don't think we need extra types of collectibles is simply because it's not necessary. If we have one type of collectible--say, fuel cells--everything works out great, and the entire game makes sense. You have to collect them, then the door opens. However, if we have multiple types of treasure (that look completely different) it's just weird. Imagine Hannah and the Pirate Caves, but on some levels, instead of having to get treasure, you have to collect shovels or something, so you can get out of the cave. I mean, the gameplay itself isn't affected. It's just out-of-place.

Now, if instead of always having to gold treasure chests, sometimes they were brown, or black, or red, then that would be okay. Everything's the same, there isn't anything else or out of place. It's just a nice change. That's fine. My biggest complaint against the power box is that it's just some weird square that happens to be everywhere, whereas in other places, we have a nice, glowing orb thing. Do you get what I'm saying? It's just out-of-place. Different colored fuel cells would be fine. (Even if you sometimes call them power orbs or something else) They fit in.

Summary: Power Boxes just seem out of place. Fuel cells are easy enough to distinguish, are attractive, and are versatile. Power Boxes are huge, ugly (even if they're drawn well) and just not in the high-tech, Aeon mindset.

First of all, lets stop using the term, "Treasures" and start calling them "Power Sources", because ultimately, that's what they are.

Just because it's not necessary doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.



A "glowing orb-thing" would look much more out of place than a power-box

Also, comparing the difference treasure chests and shovels, and power boxes and energy cells is completely ridiculous. Neither powerboxes nor fuel/energy cells come close to being as stupid as a shovel. A proper comparison would be if a briefcase of money(still not a very good comparison) was introduced. Treasure and money both basically serve the same purpose, as do powerboxes and fuel cells.

"My biggest complaint against the power box is that it's just some weird square that happens to be everywhere, whereas in other places, we have a nice, glowing orb thing. Do you get what I'm saying?"
You're saying the main reason for your stance is because the power box takes the shape of a square, and you prefer glowing orbs?
" It's just out-of-place."
I think that a "glowing orb thing" would look more out of place in a level made up mostly of square crates than a "weird square"







I rest my case



This would be like if I was running for president, and I was like, "I am amazingly smart, good on my feet and am great at negotiating. My opponent is stupid, cannot tie his shoes, and is bald." This is basically resorting to name calling. This is honestly one of the worst arguments I have ever seen during an Aeon discussion.

Power Boxes, based on kitti's interpretation, IMO, look much better than fuel cells. Have I ever used that as an argument? No. So why would you say, "Power Boxes are ugly" and use that as an argument? I strongly disagree. I think kitti's powerbox looks pretty cool, in fact. Why would you use "Fuel cells are attractive" as an argument? That's entirely judgmental, and can be dependent on the skill level of the maker of the graphic.

Powerboxes are easy to distinguish. You even said yourself that they apparently stand out. They have a big yellow lightning bolt in the center, they've got the diagonal streaks that the glass also does, and if it weren't for that, they would be the tile with the darkest background. Well, actually, aren't they anyways?

As for versatile... "capable of or adapted for turning easily from one to another of various tasks, fields of endeavor" ... ? Please expand on how fuel cells are versatile.

And calling power boxes huge? That's an extremely poor argument. You know what, TNT shouldn't have gone with treasure chests. They're HUGE! They should have instead done individual, smaller, floating coins, because, those are attractive, versatile, and not huge. Power Boxes are as large as any other crate, technically a little bit smaller. Why does the power source have to be small? Why can't it be normal sized, like treasure chests were in HatPC?

As for high-tech, who says they need to be high-tech? They're on a deserted war-torn planet. Also



None of the above looks high-tech enough. Guys, we need to totally re-do our graphics...(They're also huge!)

I'm not opposed to energy cells, its just, god, your arguments are completely over the top and poorly formed, with tons of holes in them.
Dekudude, I never wanted to have to do this, but to you, I give 100 facepalms.

You have not managed to convince me that energy cells should fly solo, just that you are terrible at forming valid arguments.

deku and I seem to share the same perspective. It's hard to explain, and maybe it seems absurd when put into words, but it's true: having two entirely different forms of power sources seems unnecessarily less simple. I still don't know why we would want to go out of our way to have two different forms of power sources, and I'm sure the player will wonder that too (either consciously or subconsciously) and it will, too a degree, bother them. Maybe it won't bother them significantly, but as game designers, we have to take into account even these kinds of subtle reactions.

Even though the fuel cell definitely needs more work, it at least looks more like a collectable than the Power Box. The Power Box looks like if you ran into it, it would behave like a steel crate.hey, what he said was different from an ad ad hominem fallacy. It is plausible to say that the power box looks pretty low-tech compared to the futuristic world that Aeon takes place in. Not to mention, it looks bulky and solid, which is exactly what keeps it from looking like a collectable.

but I still don't get why it makes more sense to have both power boxes and energy cells.

Alright, the power box is going to be a shock crate.

The power cell crate doesn't look right at all, and the way the cell is drawn, it can't possibly stack. So if we have it float, we need to decide how that will work, and if you want a version than can fall, we have to decide on how that fill work too.

One idea is... you can put them inside any crate, and then the crate glows. Once the crate is broken, the cell comes out and floats in place again, and then you can collect it. When the floating one is landed on or fallen through, it goes inside the crate?

I am also of the mind that something that glows ie fuel sourcy thing looks more collectable and attracts more attention while the power crate looks like a "Warning High Voltage" sign.

While I understand/agree with Deku and know what he means about versatility I then read Quirvy's and immediately was converted so I agree about the bad argument too.

Realistically I think the Fuel cells are better. Why coudn't you find some sort of glowing compound on a planet (even if it is war torn)? Why could you find battery like things(?) instead? Wouldn't some material potentially have more energy?

Oh and I agree with all of CSD's ideas, It wold make the tiles more clever for just about everything.

You took a lot of cheap shots there, Quirvy. Don't get all angry.

By "out of place," I guess I meant the opposite. It seems too much like it's a part of the level, and too little like something you would collect and take with you, like Livio said. I think the Power Cell would work 'cause it looks like something someone would look for, and want to take with them.

However, I am against the idea of having the power cell crate. Indeed, we need to find a way for it to stack, but I don't like the though of it being in a crate. It might work, but then, it's pretty ugly. I always kind of had the image of it acting like a normal crate, stacking and whatnot, but then falling extra slow, so it seems more... magical? You know what I'm trying to say. No Harry Potter counterarguments. >_>

But then, that could also throw of the game mechanics, and also be a bit too out of place. What's great about Hannah and the Pirate Caves that everything is simple, and predictable. If we make too many exceptions, it'll be quite a bit different, which I don't think anyone wants. Everyone, to a degree, wants a new HatPC, I think.

A potential workaround could be trapping the fuel cell in a crate, but not a crate that looks excessively... cratelike. Rather, some fancy lines that could be holding it in place magnetically or something. That could give it a stackable, non-floating structure without sacrificing appearance. I'll play with it... see if I can come up with something.

CSD, I kind of like your idea, but it might also not be the most elegant solution, either. I'm not sure. It's hard to say without actually trying it.

Anyone want to try making a new fuel cell, and putting it in a nice, high-tech crate?

If we go with CSD's idea, I think that you can manually insert a Fuel Cell into a crate of your choice, provided it's a crate.

Have the cell go inside the crate was a proposed solution to what happens when something lands on/falls through a fuel cells, so it'd probably have to be able to go inside any movable object. Put one in a boulder, and push it around until you can find a way to destroy it!

I'd guess there'd be a way to insert one into any object from the start. We might as well pull the floodgates off and let them put it inside anything. I mean, they put it inside terrain or something... well that's just not nice. There are some objects, like ladders or platforms, where it wouldn't go "inside" but, kinda just behave like normal.

I tried not to, but your summary seemed completely ridiculous, and as a result enraged me. I apologize if offended you in any way, but you need to form your arguments a lot better than that.


The energy cell looks like it would stop you, being solid glass. And that could probably be solved, by doing something like some mild glowing. And even if that wouldn't work out well, we still have the tutorial levels, to prevent the player from thinking that

"having two entirely different forms of power sources seems unnecessarily less simple"
What about it makes it so complicated that you are not even capable of attempting it?

"the way the cell is drawn, it can't possibly stack."
That's because Kitti hasn't gotten around to fixing it yet. The top part of the main body needs to be moved up by one pixel, and it might need to be wider on the top area

So, I'm just going to bring up two points:

First, why are we still throwing around the word, "high-tech"? It doesn't need to be high-tech, as the story supposedly takes place in a deserted war-torn planet.

Second, why are we trying to decide this, right here and right now? We're saying all of this, but we don't actually know how either one will work until they are actually implemented. We should just accept both ideas for right now, and then later on when we're in the late testing stages, we can decide for sure if we want to implement both or just one in the main levels, and I still firmly believe if that we don't go with power boxes at all, they should still be an allowed collectible in user levels. We shouldn't be trying to make such a decision so early.

Everyone is against that crate. It was just a mockup. Not a final draft by any means. I don't think anyone likes how it looks, myself and yourself included. I agree with you, it does not look like it can be collected. That's one of the reasons no one likes it.



It's not complicated. It's just unnecessary, and--perhaps--worse. As Livio mentioned, it will annoy people. Also, what is the purpose? Having an extra type of energy crate wouldn't make anything better at all. At best, it would just be slightly confusing.



It's not that it can't stack. It's just that it can't stack and look nice at the same time. Put a bunch on top of each other: it won't be beautiful. "Good enough" is not good enough.



The original Aeon concept was designed to be high-tech. That hasn't really changed, even though some people have been voting favor of wooden boxes, et cetera. Just because a futuristic planet has been destroyed by war doesn't mean everything is mold and rust. It's still a technologically advanced planet. If we aren't technologically advanced, the crate doesn't make any sense. We could just bring along a cup of gasoline. If we ARE technologically advanced, it doesn't make sense, because it looks so primitive, being large and bulky. If we are somewhere in between... it would be somewhere in between. Not a giant battery.



We are deciding this here and now because we are making graphics here and now. It's not a huge deal which way the tide goes. We're just working on figuring out which would be better. That's all. Making a decision right now is perfectly viable. Better sooner than later!

You can add some sort of box made out of electrical currents around the fuel cell to make it stackable.

Still, we have power box graphics, we have fuel cell graphics, perhaps it is best to leave this decision till the actual levels are done and we can actually see how it will work out. I suggest suspending this decision till later?