You're over-thinking what will confuse the player. The player will probably think, "It's collectible, and I need to collect it to move on"


Do you have anything to back this claim up? We have no good example of the power box that we can use look at stackability.


Where did you get that? The original concept to Aeon was to make a different version of hatpc that didn't suck. The storyline we created shortly takes place in a deserted planet. I don't remember anyone saying anything about it needing to be technologically advanced, or anything like that, and I'm pretty sure that you don't either, since you weren't around when all of the discussions weren't going on. I'm pretty sure that jellsprout suggested that we shouldn't do wooden crates, but that doesn't mean everything has to be high-tech, and in fact, that suggestion appears to have fallen back to allowing wooden crates.

I personally would like it to have more of a worn-down appearance, as opposed to new-high-tech look, since we're describing a war-torn planet. And maybe the space-ship they escape to was an early proto-type of a long-distance traveling space ship that never took off due to the war. If they did have long-distance traveling space ships, there would have been survivors of the war who took refuge in space, and that's not as awesome as all of the inhabitants being obliterated by the war


The power-box is already pretty well done now. It only needs a few edits before I would fully approve if it being in a flash game. So why would we want to completely scratch it now? It's much closer to being complete now than the energy/fuel cell is.

I think that we should develop both ideas, the fuel/energy cell more right now, as the power-box is much closer to being complete, and then if we decide to scratch one of them, they can be added as extra's for user levels.


And I agree with jell, even if he posted on top of me for the second time today. No need to rush the decision.

well, you have to understand that I really don't see why we have to do it in the first place, and if all it ends up doing is getting rid of simplicity, then it's just a cost which doesn't yield much or any profit.

but this feels like it's morphed into more of an argument rather than a debate, and it's annoying.

That's a really cool idea. We could present the fuel cells as being this weird material/energy that is easily absorbed by objects and doesn't fall or stack. I guess by default, we'd put them into fragile or wooden crates most of the time, but then in later levels we could attach them to boulders or other things. One idea is to let even arrows absorb them, so you have to grab them before the arrows do. And we could let objects absorb multiple energy cells too. I think I prefer this type of collectable rather than a simple treasure-like crate. It's much more versatile, so many more possibilities, and if we present it right in the tutorial, easy to understand.

But before csd presented this idea, I was thinking of a way to make fuel cells more stackable-friendly, and I thought something similar to what jell said, and to make some kind of forcefield around the cell. In fact, we can fit that in with csd's idea, and put fuel cells inside forcefields, as an alternative to putting them in a crate.

but yeah, we could just continue to develop both ideas and figure out which one we will use later. but I still don't think it would make sense to include both in the final game.

I don't think this should be TOO complex though. there are younger users here (me) who don't understand physics and everything.

Are you saying not make sense to use them both in the main level, or just have them both at all? Because I see nothing wrong with keeping them both for user levels.

"just have them both at all"
yeah. But I just don't see the reason for it. Maybe if the power box brought different gameplay possibilities, but if the whole reason behind it is just so we can use the image, it'd be pretty useless. Although, I guess you could just make it yourself out of the custom objects editor. But if it was included by default in the editor, it wouldn't make much sense.

I thought that the energy cell was going to have different properties, such as not being affected by gravity. You guys need to further develop that idea.

at first I thought it was just a glowing treasure-like crate, assuming we found a way to make it stackable (via glass crate or forcefield).

but now the idea that I that I like the most is this:
-an energy cell is this free-floating, non-solid, energy orb
-when an object collides with it, it absorbs that energy cell, and you must destroy the object in order to get the cell out.
-you can place fuel cells inside any tile while in the level editor
-there's also a "strong" fuel cell, which will have a force-field or something similar around it, thus letting it act just like a regular crate, like the original concept for power boxes or treasures in HATPC.

I dunno if I like the strong fuel cell. I guess we'd have to see what it looks like, first. But what I do like is the idea of a energy crate, which would be a metal crate containing an energy cell inside, visible through a small window in the center of the crate or something, although it could just emit a glow.

As for the energy cell itself, I would imagine this:
-It is not affected by gravity
-wooden crates landing on or through it get destroyed as our protagonist would destroy the crate(so if it's an arrow crate it would launch an arrow)
-steel crates would go through it if the energy cell is not on the ground.
-if it is on the ground, and the steel crate lands on it, it forms the energy crate.
-indestructible crates destroy energy cells if the cells are on the ground, but they would go through it if it is floating in air

oh yeah, indestructible crates would have to either destroy the cell or act as a temporary block. I prefer the latter approach.

also, if there's an energy cell inside an arrow crate, breaking that arrow crate will make the energy cell attach to the arrow itself.

I don't think i like the idea of energy cells destroying crates. It'd be better if they just absorbed the cell, like all the other crates, wouldn't it? And destroying crates implies that it's a hazard.

Didn't we also propose the idea earlier that you didn't need to collect every treasure crate/power box in the level? Say there are 25 power boxes in the level, but you only need 15 to open the door. Everything else is just bonus.

Jell is correct. Otherwise I would have been a little bit more hesitant to make that suggestion, but it works better to have indestructible crates destroy the energy cells


I dunno if I support this idea


And how would you like to destroy the indestructible crate, Livio? My idea is that you must break the crate surrounding the cell to release and collect the cell.

If you can find a way to destroy something indestructible, go for it, but otherwise, I don't see a need to have indestructibles absorb the cell.

yup.

anyway we could do both? like something that passes through and temporarily blocks fuel cells, and something else that crushes them?

edit: quirvy posted on top of me..

You mean what I just suggested(except that indestructables would pass through them without crushing), or are you trying to say something different?

well I definitely don't like the idea of cells destroying any kind of crate. At first I thought you were suggesting that they destroy wooden crates, and I never saw the reason for that. 0_o

I was thinking that when an indestructible lands on top of an energy cell it could either:
- not absorb it. That cell will be inaccessible as long as that block is there. It could be moved out of the way by destroying the floor under it, and the cell would stay in its original location.
- or it could crush and destroy the cell, so that it's gone forever.

I was wondering if maybe we could figure out a way to do both (maybe it'll only crush it if it's been falling for more than 3 tiles??), but now I'm thinking that it should just crush it all the time.

I am suggesting that. Its a certain order

Wooden crates get destroyed
Metal crates combine
Indestructible crates destroy

Wooden energy crates seem unnecessary in my opinion, and because the ball of energy is apparently concentrated energy, it's doesn't not make sense for them to be able to destroy the weakest of the crates.

double posted on top of

oh that makes sense. What about fragile crates?

and actually, there is a difference between an energy cell and an energy-wooden combo crate. Remember that energy cells, when alone, are not affected by gravity, and they do not force other objects to stack on them. So it would make sense to have such a combo.

They would probably get destroyed too.

Yeah, but I don't like that combo, because even though it does have a few capabilities(like moving the energy cell, which could be done with the metal crate, anyways), it's so easy to release it, that it might as well just be an energy cell.

You know, I prefer the simplistic approach of just having all energy-tile reactions be the same, where it just gets absorbed. Technically, if an indestructible absorbs it, it's the same as having the cell destroyed. We're already making our collectable get more complicated by giving it these energy cell properties, so there's no need to make it even more complicated by making it react differently to specific tiles.

I would still prefer the system I suggested. It adds possibilities, too, as you could use it as a continuously explosion, and you could drop arrow crates onto it, which get automatically set of towards the player. But it sounds like you prefer being lazy more...

we already have something similar to that: fragile crates on top of spikes, or if we put fire into the game.

"The top part of the main body needs to be moved up by one pixel, and it might need to be wider on the top area."
I said "the cell" not "the power box". The cell is a freaking circle. You can't stack it. But why have you completely ignored my suggestion?

I dunno, but I think what I've said works out pretty well.
- You have fuel cells as the collectible. They float. Something lands on them, or falls through them over whatever, the fuel cell gets absorbed into the object, which begins glowing. In order to retrieve the cell, you must destroy the object, and once the object is destroyed, the cell resumes its usual floating behavior. You may place cells inside objects from the start.
-The power box becomes a shock crate, which visibly electrifies all connected water & metal, until destroyed.

Both ideas have good potential for traps.

Oh, another page or posts! I didn't see it there. And now we're not ignoring my idea!

Lol, I never thought of arrows! Arrows would absorb them, but eventually the arrow hits something and is destroyed, so the fuel cell comes back out. The idea is, now you can easily move the cells left/right and up! I think if it were in an arrow crate, and we allow moving with arrows (which is cool), then it needs to go straight into the arrow. Hopefully there's not some glitch where there's like, one frame, or something, where you can collect it before it goes inside the arrow.

Indestructible crates don't have to "destroy" the fuel cells. The cells go inside, and you can never get them! Better stop that from happening, if you're trying to beat the level! I don't know what you guys are talking about with the different classes of crates behaving differently when they land on cells. Seems unnecessarily complicated to me...

Hmm... what if the cell "travelled" with the arrows? If an arrow hit a crate, the fuel cell could probably get absorbed into the crate and render it useless? Fuel cell absorbation would render crate effects useless? Seems like a neat idea.

csd, I agree with your entire post.

and Silver, that's a good question. If the arrow hits something that doesn't get destroyed, naturally I think that it would also absorb the cell. However, for gameplay and possibilities purposes, I think we should make the cell just stand in the space next to the tile the arrow hit. Otherwise, it could be a pain working with the arrow trick.

Also, if two projectiles pass each other in mid-air, they should swap energy cells, if one is carrying them.

And since crates could potentially grab multiple energy cells, when a crate fires projectile(s), it should give each projectile one energy cell, while the rest remain where the crate used to be.

These are all awesome ideas. To a degree, the arrow thing is too. However, we need to be careful. I'm not saying this has occurred just yet, but due to the ease of brainstorming, we might be getting too complex. Moving "treasure" around? That sounds a bit harsh. Imagine walking up to the last piece of treasure in HatPC, and then having it whisked away. Ugh!

It might work, but we need to be careful to maintain the simplicity that has made HatPC so great.