lol

Well, since this little scuffle has been resolved, I would just like to say... TO WORK, LIVIO!

well, we could combine the the "Articles, News, Levels & Videos" and the Articles and Levels & Videos option to say that 6 people prefer to have videos AND levels with karma than those 4 who wanted videos only that or we need a new poll on this single issue

We could, but we're not going to.

yes we are b/c I'm the dictator of this site!

btw, here are the poll results for reference

Dictators never last. Better watch out for Haily, Livio... You never know...

so this new poll will end in 48 hours too.

NOW VOTE! Your glorious dictator commands you!

this new poll is an abuse of mod powaz! you're not satisfied with the previous poll, so you start another! AARGAH

hey the last poll was set to close in 48 hours. it's not like you could've voted in it anymore.

A list of private messages I've sent would be good.

yeah, and then a feature to edit your posts if it hasn't been read yet. the only thing keeping me from doing a lot of stuff with the PM is that the code there is so tangled that I'll have to clean all that code one day...

I hereby claim this victory against the Commies

which seems to have just given me more work

Well, since apparently you guys have won, despite having lost the previous poll, it looks like we're going to have to work together in this.

Now, as CSD stated, there is a description in your levels in the galleries, which apparently is the main reason for this upset of epic proportions.

I do not think that you should be able to +1 or -1 a level based on it's quality, but on it's description, since that is what CSD argued for why you should be able to rate a level. +1ing a level because you think it's really fun would again defeat the purpose of the karma system.

However, in rare instances, such as when the cave itself is a joke(INeverActuallyLeft), or a complete ripoff of another cave, rating a level based on that quality should be completely acceptable.

With that said, I believe that the option to +1 or -1 a level should be right next to the description, to discourage people from +1ing and -1ing a cave based on quality. If you want to give them feedback on the quality of their level, you can rate their level.


If you wish to disagree with this statement, please provide a valid argument, such as the argument I have provided above. None of this silly "lol no u suck we shud be able to karma rate levels". Provide a reasonable argument expressing your views, and why you believe your views are correct.

note that the following is more analysis than an actual argument, but my conclusion, I guess, would be more of an argument.

first of all, we can try all we want to get people to rate only on the description, but they're still gonna end up rating the level anyway. that is an unavoidable fact, unfortunately...

so basically the karma system was created to be some sort of system to get rid of bad posts and bad behavior. but if we start allowing videos and levels, then that would mean that the karma system would evolve more into a more complete rating, where more of your actions throughout the site will affect your karma. But the question is: do we want the karma system to be that way?

right now some of the things that seem to award you good karma: posting something funny or smart.... lol I think that's it... but I have seen people giving good karma to posts in which they announce something they did. For example, the post where Haily announced that he made a new background for the site reached +3 karma (which used to be seen as pretty high before yaya shattered the sound barrier). If the karma system really was supposed to be for posts alone, would these ratings be acceptable? I've also noticed people giving plus karma for the first post of the creator of a level or video as a way of rewarding them for what they've made.

This system is starting to evolve into a more universal "acceptance" rating, anyway, and I think the right thing to do is to just let it evolve. We basically have no choice because ultimately, it's the people who use the system and who determine what it means and what it's for; and there's really nothing we can do to override that. And besides, I think it's fine that the system becomes more universal anyway.

I think it'd be an idea to +1 levels if the levels obviously took a lot of effort (whether or not they are any good) or if they are an improvement over previous efforts, and to -1 them for similar yet opposite reasons.

That I even knew beforehand. If I am to get my way here, it will still probably be the most ignored rule as far as karma goes.



I would have to say yes, on the basis that it is indeed the release of a major new feature on the site that affects everyone.



I haven't?


Now, regarding your final paragraph, I have this to say: ??

So you're stance is that we just let whatever will happen happen?


As for what CSD said, yeah, that's acceptable, but I still don't want anyone +1ing caves like Midnight VIII because they think it was fun, ect.

guys, I have never thought of this before, but, remember DarkZtar? the gaming community that is totally Ownage compared to us and helped me and magnus cheat neopets? well, there, there is something similar to karma - reputation. you can +rep and -rep non-anonymously every post one makes. also, when players gain levels(it's like the, 'cave crawler', 'hannah reborn' etc we had on the old site) their rep powaz increase, aka suppose i have rep power of 5, then of each post i can change the rep of the person by -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 1,2,3,4, and 5. perhaps we should make that here too? but it'll be wierd to differ the 'levels' and such. they have this points system there...

Nah, I don't like that. I mean, we can have ranks, but having your vote count more than someone else's just doesn't seem right. Although, I think someone else proposed something similar to this.



For you non-mods, 2 other things that were suggested is that for every positive rate that you gave a post, you would have to give up a karma point, and then jell also suggested a limit on the amount of posts you could rate each day. Just in case you're curious.

wait a minute, why exactly don't you want levels to be rateable? is it because you think it'll make gaining karma too easy? or just because that's not what the karma system was intended for? is this a case of keeping karma under control or are you just trying to keep the karma system closest to what it was originally intended for?

because the point of my last post was that people aren't using the karma ratings strictly for what it was intended for; they're giving out ratings for everything, so adding ratings for levels and vids isn't much of a difference from that.

that's because you're always the first to reply to most topics, whereas I usually show up after a good amount of people have been there.

I'm saying that you shouldn't karma rate caves based on their quality. You can rate their caves if you want to give them feedback.

you think people would start using the karma ratings instead of the level ratings? I'd imagine that most people who'd give a level karma would know that it's going towards the user's overall karma and that their rate won't be seen as a form of feedback on the cave.

No, I think that they'd use both at the same time. Good levels get rewarded with good ratings, not karma! Maybe, good effort, as CSD said, can get rewarded with karma, so I might +1 one of catta's recent caves, since she's made such a good improvement from her previous caves, yet still only rate it 8.2, yet I wouldn't +1 yaya's Umbra, because he's been consistently good, despite me rating it a 9.5

yes. exactly. all of them together.

we have many things that we can learn and adopt from DZ. that is a very successful site, it usually has around 900 users online every second, and has tens of thousands of members - CheeSie is a badbutt programmer.

there are also two lines for each person that appear under their name, here to the left - one that shows the level and how close they are to leveling up, and since we don't use that system, it's no use, and one that shows activity in %s. dunno how it works, but perhaps we can base the rep-karma system around activity, moderatorship, karma(aka, for every 10~ or so karma you have, you get +1 karma power), or whatever?

i dunno, it's just that we should try and learn from others' experience. open for debate =]

actually that sounds ok to me. more karma might be handed out overall, too, which means that the average rating per user might finally escape the single digits

edit: whoa! where did shos' post come from??

true. perhaps we can also put some average for levels adding karma - if your level has an average ratiing of 9+, after 5 or so rates for example, you get 1 karma for it. i agree with quirvy, though, and it kinda contradicts this one.

perhaps again, we should make the karma change commentable?