jumping through ceilings and floors? that's easy. now try to that without seeing the terrain! aha!...

watch aeonlulz.

Standing Width: 12
Standing Height: 20
Crawling Width: 12
Crawling Height: 15
Running Acceleration: 5
Maximum Running Speed: 6.25
Maximum Crawling Speed: 2.7
Horizontal Deceleration: 2.5
Falling Acceleration: 2
Maximum Fall Speed: 25
Initial Fall Speed: -20
Left/Right Collision Buffers: 7
Top/Bottom Collision Buffers: 0
Bounce Left/Right: 1
Bounce Delay: 1

There numbers feel pretty natural to me? Remember to crawl in order to get the options to apply, for some reason. Does the crawl speed even work with decimals? It seems to make a very large jump in speed from 2.5 to 2.51, and doesn't really to change at all from 2 to 2.5 and from 2.51 to 3.

Also, when I apply a friction, I don't like how, when I jump, I'll accelerate after I take off. Doesn't look right AT ALL, but, since there's only one type of object, it doesn't really make sense to have both the ambient and surface friction.

Cracking job! The only gameplay issue that I detected was the difficulty in 'squeezing' the character sideways into double gaps when jumping - often the character just bounces off the gaps as you hold down left down and it slides down to the bottom. In HATPC, Hannah would slide into the gap. If you don't know what I mean, I'm referring to the difficulty in getting into the left-most corridors.

Very fluid and authentic otherwise.

Lol, set all the bounces to like 20, and the horizontal acceleration to 0 for pinball, and the vertical acceleration to 0 as well for pong.

Wow nice, I liked messing around with the debug and playing Aeon with it, it's awsome, but what happened to the left-most coridors, the ones that Hannah jumped into?

I did that pong thing for a long time yesterday, but with bounce at 10. After a while, the character goes into a loop at the top of the level, which should be impossible. Probably rounding errors.

Pretty cool - you can go outside of the borders of the level and re-enter - except for the bottom one, because you just fall in eternity there.

lol that's left over from testing...

yeah we can do that already. For the characters, everything is relative to the center point, so by changing the Width and Heights, you make can make the hit-test box smaller and it'll be centered within the regular character's space.

I'm not sure what you mean by that because you can duck-jump into crawl spaces in corners if there are blocks above you to help you get in, like in HATPC.like an edge-grabbing mechanic? Might be a cool feature to add as an option, similar to how I might add wall-jumping as an option.

Well flash can only do so much at once, so running two loops, one for the level and one for the map, will just give you a slower loading time, and I'm actually not sure if the difference in total time will be much. At least the map only loads once...

Well, the only changes you should be able to make while playing a level would probably be the framerate. But when you make a level, I think that too many options will only become a problem if you present them wrongly. That's why I want to make it so that you only have the regular tiles to work with, but now options. If you want to customize a tile, then you must actually make a new custom tile to work with. And the custom tile user interface has to be organized well so that you don't intimidate the user, and include several presets to make things easier too. I just think that it's possible to be ultra-user-friendly while still leaving as many options as possible for those who want them.

yeah the backgrounds are a problem, not only because of that, but because it might be a pain to moderate them. But then again, the same can be said about bringing in your own custom art for custom tiles too. We'll see how it might work out...

I'm hoping that we can make the level editor great enough that there is no need to even look at the level code. I probably will let people edit it if they want, but making it user-friendly is not a priority. At least this level code is efficient and loads much faster.

And yeah, what I said, we can make everything appear to be super easy and simple, but if you dig deep enough in the level editor, there should still be the options for those who want them. Like if we released this game with a horrible user-interface like the Debug Menu, this game would be a disaster, but if there's an amazingly simple level editor then it'll work.

that's actually kinda cool. It's like the moonwalk actually, you guessed right, I actually went out of my way to make it work like that. Except that it doesn't seem to work all the time.

Technically, it does have that, but the max crawl speed is so low that you reach it very quickly, thus giving the illusion that you're not going through gradual acceleration. This is also because the acceleration is the same for crawling as it is for running... I wonder if I should change that.whoa the first Aeon video?

not yet.that's a great idea

I have to actually go out of my way to make sure duck jumping doesn't happen, so maybe that's why it exists in HATPC... I'm not sure about removing it though, since it does allow you to jump into crawl spaces in corners. I'm not sure what you meant by the second part of your post, but I think I addressed it already in an earlier part of this post.

I hope that's not because you're making mistakes while typing? Because it can be really annoying to properly put in decimals in these text boxes that I put up.

Well, that goes with the whole idea that you can turn in mid-air. Hey, what if we add an option that doesn't allow you to turn in mid-air? In case anyone wants such realism...lol I noticed that too. But whoa, I never though of putting falling acc to 0....

yeah, that's annoying me like crazy too. lol The problem is with the current combination of setting for bounce, bounce lag, horizontal acceleration, and stuff. Mess around with those until you fix it?

yeah I want to add options on what you want the game to do when characters or objects go "completely out of bounds", which means that not a single pixel is within the level area. One option will be for what it's doing now which is nothing, another will be for a HATPC-like force field, and another will be to destroy the object or character. Btw, the game does not test for collisions outside of its level area, just so you know...

"but I think I addressed it already in an earlier part of this post."
You didn't. Some options don't seem to take affect until after I duck. I'm not sure how else to explain... Try lowering the standing movement acceleration and top speed, and it won't take affect until you duck for the first time. Once you unduck, the options take affect, and you'll walk slower.

"I hope that's not because you're making mistakes while typing? Because it can be really annoying to properly put in decimals in these text boxes that I put up."
It's not.

"Well, that goes with the whole idea that you can turn in mid-air. Hey, what if we add an option that doesn't allow you to turn in mid-air? In case anyone wants such realism..."
Well, you'd still be allowed to turn around, but you wouldn't be able to do go any faster in either direction then the speed you were going when you jumped. The running acceleration might need to be proportionally lowered as well, but I'm not sure if that's so needed.

"yeah, that's annoying me like crazy too. lol The problem is with the current combination of setting for bounce, bounce lag, horizontal acceleration, and stuff. Mess around with those until you fix it?"
Have you tried my settings? It's almost too easy to get in.

oh yeah, I told myself that I would try your settings after I finished the post but i forgot....

I'll also try to see what's going on with this ducking-for-options-to-take-effect thing.

wow these work really well. I can't but help feel like the running speed is too slow, but that might just be because I got so used to the faster speed?

Edit: hey, I just noticed the thing with the options taking effect after crawling. It seems like it's at first referencing the default max-run speed, but when you crawl it checks for the crawling max speed, so when you stop crawling it goes back to the run-speed, but instead of the default run speed it finds the changed one. I'll have to fix that...

GLITCH!!

In the crawl space to the left of the starting place, I was jumping up and down in it, and pressing the down key randomly, too.  Then, I fell down to the very bottom of the map.  I could still move, but I could see the arrow, and I couldn't make the arrow appear.

Well, I'm working off of the size of the tiles being smaller than in HATPC, but I'm not sure if that's what's intended. These tiles are 16x16, are they? So, if we're going off of the typical tiles size being 32x32, then they'll need to be re-worked. I know that the jump height is 3 tiles, and the length is 4 tiles across (maybe 5, but if 5 is possible it's just barely, and it wouldn't be too hard to just slightly alter the numbers). Also, the crawling speed is faster than I want, because I can't actually get 2.7, 'cause it's rounding to 3, so maybe the walking speed seems slow by comparison?

My point is that I gotta imagine this character and the tiles being twice the size, and then trying to get the total amount of tiles crossed to be about the same. Somebody ought to time these settings against HATPC and see which one is faster...

Oh, and here are some more options that work well:
Background Type: Mix of Both
BG Color: 0xff00ff
BG Opacity: 0.5
BG Image: 4
Terrain Type: Solid Color
T Color: 0x000011
T Opacity: 0.5

yeah, that's part of the crawling glitch too. Going in and out of crawling phase, you somehow appeared standing with the bottom of the character inside the terrain tile. And once you were inside, you just fell through it and then you just kept falling into oblivion......

Hey, make it so that you die when you fall out the bottom?

no the tiles are 32x32 already. and I just checked right now, too.

Lol, you're right? So the character heights and widths aren't in pixels? I dunno... Why does HATPC feel so much larger?......... *confused*

I'm just gonna back away slowly.

I made it a little faster, then:
Maximum Running Speed: 7
Falling Accel: 2.35
Max Fall Speed: 26
Init Jump: -22

I'm reasonably sure the max running and crawling speeds don't respect my decimals. Check the stairs, and you don't always make it up all three, using these settings. This would be solved by a slightly higher max run speed, but 8 is far too high.

Wall jumping / "climbing up" what if you only made that possible for SOME characters, and you had boxes that switch characters? THAT'D be a good idea, while also keeping flexibility. You can have a Hannah-like character, an Armin-like character, and some others.

Speaking of Armin... is the game going to be like HatIC, where you just switch between characters, or will you play as one, and then hit boxes that change you? Maybe you can do both?

You play as one character during the entire level.

Then we definitely need character-transformation boxes. That'd be a great idea for puzzles.

...and you shouldn't allow duck jumping. It's just a silly concept.

Side question - which three caves did you play in the screenshots?

I think one of them is MIX.

I maintain we should only have one character. And yeah, I don't like how duck-jumping into tight spaces works exactly like it does in HatPC. Cool otherwise, though!

Personally, I have no problem with being able to jump into crawlspaces, but if we do go with it, then we should make it so that you will consistently make it into the crawlspace, which I doubt that you can do, so, yeah, you should probably just fix it.

Current Ideal Settings:
Standing Width: 12
Standing Height: 20
Crawling Width: 12
Crawling Height: 15
Running Acceleration: 5
Maximum Running Speed: 7
Maximum Crawling Speed: 2.7
Horizontal Deceleration: 2.5
Falling Acceleration: 2.35
Maximum Fall Speed: 26
Initial Fall Speed: -22
Left/Right Collision Buffers: 7
Top/Bottom Collision Buffers: 0
Bounce Left/Right: 1
Bounce Delay: 1

lol, csd I completely forgot about how the widths and heights work. Apparently, these numbers represent HALF of the widths and heights. It constructs the "hit box" FROM the center, using these numbers to tell it how far up, left, right, down it should make the box, relative from the center. Lol, I don't know why I forgot that detail or why I even coded it like that. I guess could've just saved a real value for width and height and then have the code cut it in half and stuff.

that's a great idea, actually. I got that idea before, but I'm not sure if I ever suggested it.

lol, they were taken from the latest video archive screenshots at the time, because I found them in my Recently-Opened files list.

in that case, you can say goodbye to jumping into crawl spaces in corners... unless we make another way to make it work. Maybe if you hit the ceiling at a certain speed, your height is "squished" and that squish will mimic the whole duck-jumping thing, and help you actually get into the corners?