Ok, my vote is worthwhile on Yaya. RG2 will probably get replaced anyway. Vote: Yaya

Vote Count 1.6
Yaya (2) - Thomas, Shavey Dave
Thomas (1) - rocket guy2
Yuggy (1) - Harumbai
Quirvy (1) - Yuggy
rocket guy2 (1) - Jellsprout

Not voting (6) - soccerboy13542, Yaya, Shos, Jazz, Snipereborn, Quirvy

With 12 alive, it's 7 to achieve a lynch.
Deadline is at June 14, 06:00 Interguild Standard Time.

Vote: soccerboy
Because he's very involved in the yaya controversy and isn't saying anything about it.

@Shavey Dave
What caused you to vote Yaya? Between your last post and the above the only post was where I voted so it appears that you decided to vote Yaya because I did.

starting to read from Q's big post.

firstly, karma rates should not exist in the Mafia topics - Isa should add that as a rule.

secondly,

No. In my first post where I FoS'd Yaya I was sitting on the fence. Yaya was hanging over my shoulders. Your post made me think. It made me think that I might aswell vote someone. So basically, yes you influenced me but I did not simply vote Yaya because you did.

(Yaya was IMO obviously most scummy so he wa that someone)

That's a good point actually, soccer had been very very quiet...

FoS: Soccer

I discourage karma rates but do not ban them.

I feel like whatever response I'm going to have to write about this ****storm might be too complex to write on an iPod. I'll try to borrow my bro's laptop tonight. I'm just posting this so you don't think I'm avoiding confrontation. And even if I can't use his latop, I'll still try to write up something on my iPod as a testement to the fact that this isn't an excuse. Either way, I'll respond before the night is over.

Snipereborn: It's not always the case, but I believe if someone's at L-1, they'll probably get lynched. That obviously doesn't always happen, but all it takes is one person who thinks there's no more evidence to explore. Without making my past defense seem pointless, I'll admit that there's a chance Soccerboy is scum. When I defended him, there was as much of a chance as being scum as any other player (very little) in my eyes, so I didn't see a problem with defending him.

Of course, that was a few pages ago, so things have changed for everyone since then. But I usually think the L-1 means a.) There is a big chance of someone being scum or b.) There is a big misundestanding. Misunderstandings can be easily solved. My main point was it's a lot more incriminating to be defending someone at L-1 than at 1 or 2 votes because either a.) They'll get out of L-1, but the act of you defending them will be remembered and may return later, especially if your defense was the one that got them out of L-1 or b.) they'll end up flipping scum and then you'll just get torn to shreds the next day for unintentionally defending scum. I don't really think mislynching matters in this situation, because usually there's a larger opposition in a mislynch instead of one person believing they're innocent. In L-1, I wouldn't give much to defend them unless I had legitimate evidence, not theory/indepth talk like we're doing now. It's like how state-appointed lawyers that get assigned to serial killers or shooters can't really do much except their official job, because they won't be able to convince anyone that they'd didn't do it.

Sorry if I was too thorough, I think it just boils down to that we'd react differently in an L-1 situation. Right now the whole Soccerboy thing boils down to what you said about L-1, except with 1-2 votes. I didn't believe Soccerboy was scum, and the stakes were low, so I defended him. No secret alliance or ulterior motives.

Thomas: I'll admit my defense is bad in this situation, but it's just because I never thought I'd have to explain so vigorously on something that I consider ordinary. Feel free to tell me what MS wiki concepts I've violated to your little heart's content.

Shavey: I'm the most scummy player for defending someone early on in the game? That's cool.
---
I'm sorry if my responses to Thomas/Shavey weren't enough for you guys, I just thought Snipereborn's question called for the best response because he asked about a specific part of my action instead of just questioning the whole thing, and he didn't just restate everyone else's concern.

Seriously, if you have any more good problems/questions on this situation, I'll do my best to answer them, but I feel like we should be devoting our attention somewhere else. This isn't even an attempt to divert attention; it's gonna be a hell of a lot harder to get a lynch if we spend 1-2 days talking about this and I convince you, though. No offense, but most players have kinda moved on past this situation. It was even dead before it was brought up again. Ask away if you need to, but this is getting old to me. There's only so much I can say concerning 2-3 posts I made.

So I'm looking back at old posts and just making notes of things that I happen to notice.

The first thing I noticed is that Thomas was a bit of a hypocrite early on. When soccer voted for shos based on a coin flip, he called him out on that, saying "Soccerboy, do you really want shos dead based on your coin flipping?" I thought that this was funny, because he was also mad at me for suggesting that he would make a good first vote based on his bad history in mafia. So not only was it not okay for soccerboy to randomly choose his first vote, it was also not okay for me to have chosen my first vote non-randomly.

Meanwhile, if I spoke like Thomas like did back then, I would ask him, "do you really want rocket guy2 dead because rockets are weapons?"

This doesn't hold much relevance to whether or not he's scum, though.


Second: shos never answered this question:



Shos confusion count++;


The rest of this post is more related to scum-hunting. I put all of the less relevant stuff that I noticed at the top


Thomas is correct about rocket guy2's post being questionable, as I've said before. It was only the second vote, but he managed to looked like he was bandwagoning and voting in retaliation of being voted on; His reasoning seemed to similar to jellsprout's

This might not matter that much, though, since rocketguy looks like he's going to get replaced as a result of his inactivity.


Jellsprout has quietly been very quiet in this game. So far all but one of his posts have been extremely short. He's mostly focused on wanting shos dead (which I admittedly agree with), both wanting him lynched because he's "obvious scum" and stating that he wants someone to nightkill shos even if he is town, and that he might not be anyways. Outside of shos, he's random voted at Thomas, and also voted for rocket guy2 for his inactivity.

Jellsprout, I want to hear more from you.


Jazz has made multiple excuses for his inactivity; first a chinese exam on saturday, and now it's "life problems". Jazz, I don't mean to be aggressive or anything, but can we count on you to contribute to the game or are you going to be too busy to play?


Shos has been acting really... How I put this in a nice way?... Not very intelligently. Yaya summed it up pretty well with his "Thanks for the rebuttal, Shos" post, where shos attacked Yaya, yaya made a big post in response to which shos simply replied "moar votes on yaya plox". His link between soccerboy and yaya was based on a post that appears to me to be mostly joking. He clearly didn't even notice jellsprout's post calling him out, he tried to vote despite that he knew that he wouldn't be able to vote. He declared that "I noticed how I also previously linked soccerbawy and yaya as scum, and now soccer comes to defend him!" -- He never previously linked soccerboy and Yaya as scum, although maybe he thought that he made a post that he didn't, because I noticed that he also managed to unvote before his yaya vote, even though he hadn't previously voted. If shos wasn't unlynchable, he would be the most obvious candidate for being lynched today. His resume is impressive considering we're barely into day 1, and this isn't even his full resume. I very strongly recommend that if you have a night kill, that you use it to kill shos tonight.

In fact it looks like this whole "soccerboy and yaya are defending eachother" thing has originated from a joking post from soccerboy, and shos' accusation at yaya which forced him to be associated with soccerboy when he defended himself. And I wouldn't say that he was defending soccerboy as much as he was discrediting shos' arguments. It's not like the arguments that shos had on soccer were going to go anywhere, they were basically, "you used a coin flip to determine your random vote" and "you jokingly defended yaya"

Personally, I think that the argument against yaya/soccerboy alliance right now is a dead end, mostly because I don't even view his post in question as legitimately defending soccerboy, because there were no legitimate arguments for soccerboy being scum. This whole thing feels like a big distraction.

This whole thing feels like a big post.

This whole thing is a big post.

@Yaya
I'm satifsfied with this for the moment.

I still want to hear something from soccer. He has yet to confirm or deny the fact that he is an alien toast monster.

@Quirvy
I agree about shos. It's very frustrating that I can't do anything about it, so I'd be willing to bet there's a townie kill role out there, or at least an indie.
I'm null on jell. I feel like there isn't a lot of real information, so jell's quietness may just be a lack of stimuli. I know I'm throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks, and there isn't very much at all.
My read on you is null. The reasoning is kinda dumb, but I'm sticking to it. I feel like you're probably town, but I thought the same thing about yaya and isa last game, so I'm gonna say I probably don't know what I'm talking about on that.

@Harumbai
Are you a secret squid assassin, trained by the green men from mars to impersonate an interguildian and suck out peoples souls through their kidneys?

What exactly is the purpose of this and the stuff you've been saying to soccer?

Just to see what happens. You can give little prods to see who does what with them.

@Yaya. Yes. You are the most scummy player IMO for that.

Is it time for rocketguy to get replaced?

Pretty much Shavey.

Unvote

I don't know, Quirvy doesn't seem very scummy ATM IMO.

Thank you for quoting or I probably would have missed this, I'm quite tired.

Well if this is a thought experiment which you just blatantly announced, then I'll say yes I am a secret squid assassin... And see where you go with that. I hope you find true enlightenment.

Also reading Yaya's defense on the topic of Yaya/Soccer I am complacent with his response and in fact didn't really see a huge issue in the first place, but never mind... Shavey's unrelenting yaya is evil comments are seeming a bit forced now. I'm wondering why he doesn't drop it yet. Yaya is coping pretty well having been accused for so long.

that's jst RVS. ignorable.
eh samebecause my English lacks the oh so amazingly important part of capitalizing a start of a sentence. I asked that in order to see if he is trying to breadcrumb something to someone, by making wrong capitalizations in many different places.
still RVS.+1 to datwe all can be V/LA for whiles, but he really didn't post at all, so uh..

btw quirvy, V/LA is vacation/limited access.
are you aware that all the stuff with soccerboy and yaya was still RVS and stupid accusations? as I said, mafia games start in a really wierd way; what I did was trying to provoke *something*. anything. and eventually it did, I mean, the situation changed of course with Isa declaring how he treats me being a stump, but still it made Sniper post that 'kill shos ASAP' post which is really scummy. if you think town is better with me dead that's fine, but why not let me talk for the rest of the day? and wasting vig shots etc etc, you got the point already~

you should really start thinking in a more investigative mode and not a cop mode(not roles, reallife stuff). I mean, cops will take anything they can and brute force check it all. investigators see it all, but they think, and only then decide what they do.. start thinking, I'm not stupid.

...yep, you definitely didn't get the point =\ hopefully you got it now.

if you still didn't - you can see it that way. Sniper wants to prod and see reactions with 'are you a squid, or an asian toast monster' whatever. I do that in game-related stuff, which probably actually give better chance to get good reactions(good reactions: anything that isn't what harumbai just said, for example).

I am also not posting as much because the on-going discussions and accusation confused me. Yaya is obv scum because he defended himself and SB in a post which was more an attack on Thomas than a defense for SB. I don't understand why you would overreact so badly to that post, so I assumed I missed something.
That said, SB's posting style is annoying me. The lack of punctuation, the excessive smilies. It is as if he is pretending to be Silver at her worst or something. I don't remember him being that bad before, so I think it has something to do with his role.

I don't really have any real reads at the moment, other than the ones I have already said. Everybody is playing pretty much how I would expect them to play. I am also not a big fan of this part of the game. Random accusations everywhere with nothing to back them up and little to gain from them.

I don't know why you bothered responding to the first 3 quotes, shos; those were mostly trivial things. But thanks for pointing out that it was in the RVS and is ignorable (not like I didn't shortly after in the post that the stuff at the top was the less relevant stuff)



Shos, being in RVS means that you give random votes, not that you act randomly all the time. It doesn't mean that you're free to go around and act crazy, voting when you know you can't, claiming to have said things that you haven't, ignoring giant posts by other users and encouraging others to vote for him anyways. I don't care if it was RVS, you shouldn't be acting like that. You call that stuff about soccerboy and yaya RVS and stupid accusations, but that's the point, it was stupid accusations, and yet it's managed to last until page 7 because other people suddenly think that yaya is defending soccerboy. Instead of making stupid accusations and trying to keep us in the RVS, you should have been trying to make semi-legitimate accusations that would have helped us out of the RVS.

What do you mean that I didn't get the point? If the point is to act oblivious to basic logic during the random voting stage, then, yes, I didn't get the point. You were the only one to act this questionably during the RVS, and I'd think that most people would agree that you were acting off; Of course you should continue posting throughout the day, but please kindly try to act a little more seriously; I'm all for having fun, but that doesn't mean I'd ignore someones lengthy post and say "more votes on ____ plox" because we're in the RVS and apparently everything you do in the RVS doesn't hold any relevance.

jell, what do you mean about SB? look at his posts on page 5 and 4. smilies? what are you talking about?

oh. page 3. I see. well still, it's not like a posting 'style', it's just a few comments in the bad part of the game.

Firstly, in RVS you are definitely welcome to do that; the game is void of content, there is nothing to do. just having 12 random votes won't do anything, and game will not start (hence my confusion count you mentioned?)

are you blaming me for having shavey still think yaya is scum? really? you're blaming me for 'other people suddenly think..'? how bout ask those other people, you know? O_o

there really aren't any semi-legitimate accusations available. RVS is a bad stage in the game as jell said; the game is void of anything, you can't just look at something and think OH MY, scum would obviously be very very wary about not being revealed! so they won't vote in RVS so that people don't think about them!...*is an example of what NOT to think as a legitimate accusation*...

the point is that RVS is completely bulls. all it is is random posting until anyone makes anything discussable, scumslips, self-countering etc etc. in the game I'm playing in MS, I was in L-1 twice in like the first 3 pages. then someone unvoted, and discussion began about how people jumped on the wagon so easily, and why that guy unvoted and THE WAY he did that, etc etc. RVS is purely a "try-to-gather-info stage".

last thing - the moar votes post - yaya just posted a bunch of stuff to defend against nothing. that was what, one vote? I wanted more pressure on him to see how he reacts. usually people really don't care if they have a vote on themselves if it has no great case to support. with what I said, such a lengthy reaction by yaya can definitely be percieved as scum reaction under pressure, considering he isn't a complete newbie.

I felt I had to step up my defence in my last post because 1.) Thomas was one of the people that asked me that time, and he usually doesn't let off as easily and he called my defence bad, so I tried to improve it 2.) I couldn't of said the same things over again again. I already had to restate myself once; I needed to say something new to prove my point.

My response on page 2 to your one vote wasn't big to me. I thought it got the job done. If you're talking about my response to Thomas/Sniper/Shavey, that whole thing seemed to be everyone's main concern at the moment, so I couldn't of brushed it off with a "less votes on me plox" and just move on. Yeah it was only 1 or 2 votes, but you guys didn't really have any other cases besides that and inactivity, so I didn't want it to escalate.

So, essential what you're telling me is that you don't what me giving you attention? As far as I'm concerned, that was pretty much what I was looking for. I suppose it didn't occur to you that I knew I was announcing it on a public thread, so everyone would know what I was doing?
Plus, you posted, now didn't you? Mission accomplished.