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| Neopets Mafia - Day 1 |
| Vote Counts: 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5. |
| shos | ||
| ~Jack of all trades~ Age: 31 Karma: 389 Posts: 8273 Gender: Male Location: Israel pm | email |
sure. gimme a few minutes and I'll return to you with a nice, probably long, comment  | |
| Silver | ||
Karma: 121 Posts: 3581 Gender: Female pm | email |
'Isa' said: Okay, this does not really sit well with me. If you need to be reminded that you're suspicious of someone something fishy is in the works. Ever heard of forgetting things? Being forgetful? Because you have not, apparently. 'shos' said: I have to say taht shavey and silver play very suspiciously. consistency is one of the most important traits I can think about regarding this game, and you're not only not showing it, but also showing the opposite. FoS: Silver OK I think by now that people are pretty much using really weird and horrid reasons just to vote people as mafia. I mean SERIOUSLY, first rage = mafia and now not showing consistency = mafia? I don't think you've heard of forgetfulness either. Also your argument is somewhat confusing. And BTW, Thomas asked for my LIST of suspicious people, and not reasons. | |
| shos | ||
| ~Jack of all trades~ Age: 31 Karma: 389 Posts: 8273 Gender: Male Location: Israel pm | email |
going from buttom to top. 'Shavey Dave' said: 'Isa' said: Jellsprout, ponder the following theoretical scenario: Thomas is in this game and he is acting like he did in the original Interguild mafia game. Would you lynch him? You're excusing players for acting scummy because they have done it previously. This is not good at all, it gives scum a free pass if they were scum the last time around. Let's pretend that Shavey Dave is town here. How would you expect Shavey Dave to act if he was scum and how would it differ from his current play? And regardless - was he a hypocrite in the last game? That's what I am accusing him of. List of good votes: Shavey Dave, Jazz, shos, Yaya Everyone, feel free to sheep me for free townpoints and a swift victory. Maybe I wasn't like this last game because previously I have played so poorly that I wan't to 'change my style'. really? is that how you phrase yourself? If you really stood behind that post, you probably wouldn't put 'change my style' in parenthesis; and furthermore, you wouldn't use the word 'maybe'. if you read your sentence, and then read it without the maybe, you'll understand what I mean. I'd understand if you were sarcastic or something, and it would be "Maybe....style'? thought about that?". but it isn't. 'Shavey Dave' said: 'Yaya' said: Shavey, you can't just say you voted somebody because they were suspicious. You need a reason that they were suspicious. And drawing a picture won't get you any sympathy, especially if it's less skillfully drawn than Thomas's picture. Don't try and divert the attention. FoS: Shavey I just drew that out of bordem. Isn't it clear that I found Silver suspicious because of her rage? boredom? seriously? this is what you do when you're bored? I'd expect at least some mediocre contribution to the Art Thread if you did. besides, that' sincredibly an appeal to emotion. also, no, it's not obvious at all. 'for her rage'? seems to me like you're trying to fish ideas you can say you based your vote on, and you don't have any, so you're using 'obvious' as the support. 'Shavey Dave' said: Here's how I see it. I was already planning to vote Silver before I logged in when I clicked on Neopets Mafia day 1 I see that two people have already done so. I then vote her anyway. I didn't vote her because others did, I honestly voted her because of pure suspicion. #you log in, read and comment about stuff in the game. #seven hours later, jellsprout logs in, votes silver. #one hour later, yaya logs in, votes silver. #20 minutes later, you come to the interguild. you are planning to vote silver, despite having nothing changed since your last post. you then log in and click on the thread, and see the two votes, and then you vote her. makes perfect sense? what? also, it should be noted that you 'vote her anyway' in the quote right above here. anyway? so, what you're saying is that 'despite the other votes' you vote her? 'in January 8, on 5:02 am, Shavey Dave' said: Spoiler: 'Shavey Dave' said: 'Thomas' said: Okay then you are admitting that you voted for Silver because you "saw two votes" and you don't mention anything about actually having suspicious against Silver so you are bandwagoning. That's what scum do. I said I did have suspicious against Silver. Un - FoS: Thomas. That was an OMGUS vote so I'll at least remove it. Also Unvote: Silver. 'Thomas' said: You made a post before the 2 others voted but you only voted afterwards because you knew you could get a mislynch. You did not know this until after the 2 votes were made which is why you did not vote in the post made before the votes.  'Shavey Dave' said: Anyway about Silver accumulating votes, well she is the most suspicious out of anyone at the moment and everyone's going to vote the most suspicious person right? right? no. you're giving yourself justifications for bandwagoning. 'Shavey Dave' said: 'Silver' said: 'Thomas' said: ...and Bmwsu flipped town in both of those so if you are voting me for that logic then I will flip town as well? Bad logic. No. That wasn't what I meant. I was applying his MISTAKES to you, not what he flipped. 'Thomas' said: Lol Silver that is how Bmwsu messed up in the last game so with that logic, if we lynch you then you will flip mafia. 'Thomas' said: if we lynch you then you will flip mafia. 'Thomas' said: you will flip mafia. 'Silver' said: I knew this was gonna happen. OK vote me! You'll all suffer afterwards anyway when it turns out I'm town and you'll all look stupid. But vote me anyway because I'm OBVIOUSLY mafia because I was in the first three games! It makes SO much sense! Blargh. (I am in a really bad mood today, I literally raged at this.) A ha! Still though, this is not a reason to rage like this. RL can't defend you. ~~~~~ that's a summary of pages 9+ alone. | |
| Isa | ||
| No. I'm an octopus. Age: 31 Karma: 686 Posts: 7833 Gender: Male Location: Uppsala, Sweden - GMT +1 pm | email |
Other than the fact that you try to gather a scumread from a sentence that can be read in more ways than the way you read it in (let's be fair, not EVERYTHING is a scumtell - also, stop trying to make people sound like they're scum from the way they are forming sentences), how does that relate to consistency? | |
| shos | ||
| ~Jack of all trades~ Age: 31 Karma: 389 Posts: 8273 Gender: Male Location: Israel pm | email |
what.? that is not just a misread or misphrase. when you phrase sentences like that it is clear that you don't really believe what you're saying. and about the consistency - well, he's just not being consistent. | |
| Isa | ||
| No. I'm an octopus. Age: 31 Karma: 686 Posts: 7833 Gender: Male Location: Uppsala, Sweden - GMT +1 pm | email |
Maybe I wrote it like this to sarcastically imply that it was obvious to me that this was my intention by including the word "Maybe". Not ending with a question mark does not change that. It's not a scumtell, and it doesn't imply that he doesn't believe in himself. I don't get how he's inconsistent? | |
| shos | ||
| ~Jack of all trades~ Age: 31 Karma: 389 Posts: 8273 Gender: Male Location: Israel pm | email |
yes, it does. it's subconcious stuff - for example, if I remember correctly he asked for some kind of confirmation that what he says is correct in a non-sarcastic way at least once. and his post does NOT sound sarcastic to me(the one with the maybe). about the inconsistencies - look at thomas' posts, they provide good scumhunting in my opinion, at least against shavey in the last few pages. it's almost 2 am here, I will do some more work tomorrow hopefully. | |
| snipereborn | ||
| Fact Squisher Age: 31 Karma: 136 Posts: 1307 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, United States pm | email |
My list of suspects: Soccerboy Shavey Dave Jazz Thomas Silver Obviously, this list is too long. Here are my thoughts on each of these: Soccerboy 'soccerboy13542' said: by now, the consistent mafia players try to not be bandwagon voters... i don't think this tactic will work this time around. 'soccerboy13542' said: 'Jazz' said: ... And... can you tell me whats a Jester in a mafia game? for this reason, i don't think he is a jester... I'm not quite certain, but something here feels weird to me. Sorry for the super lame reasoning. I just can't put my finger on exactly what's going on here. 'soccerboy13542' said: Thomas didn't say why you were obvscum if he did have a reason. -x- he said that there was no excuse to it, so i think what you said didn't fit under what thomas said. You seem to be deliberately misrepresenting what Thomas said. Maybe I'm interpreting your statement incorrectly, but I'd say that's a minor scumtell. 'soccerboy13542' said: I don't understand what you are saying about RL issues should not influence the game. it's kind of impossible to control some of these things. 'Shavey Dave' said: Anyway about Silver accumulating votes, well she is the most suspicious out of anyone at the moment and everyone's going to vote the most suspicious person right? ^ we still have until january 15th for the end of this day. we don't want to have an early lynch just to find out that they were innocent. It would be kinda weird for the mafia to try to extend day 1. It's unlikely any information derived from continuing day 1 would help them, short of roleclaiming. Though, I suppose it's possible that the mafia would want to try to make some townie friends and would therefor try to defend a townie that had a bandwagon on them. 'soccerboy13542' said: Directed at Thomas: you posted at Sunday, January 8 2012, 4:19 am EST PLEASE DO NOT EXPECT ME TO STAY UP JUST TO POST HERE. and you want me to post my thoughts... the only person i am suspicious of is shavey for bandwagoning. of course if i were to do something about this, you'd probably yell at me for bandwagoning. everything that happens seems to be at night for me, so there's not much opportunity for me to call out people without being branded as bandwagoning. Who cares? Do something anyway. Just make sure you have (and give) good reasoning for your votes. If you're right, it doesn't really matter if they "yell at you for bandwagoning". I suppose that's just my play style, but I'd find it difficult to vote for you if all you did was vote for a person you had good reason to believe was mafia. Even with all these quotes and what-not, the case against soccer looks pretty weak to me. About 30% certainty on my mafia read for him. Shavey Dave 'Shavey Dave' said: Spoiler: You seem to want a quick lynch here. Now, I know I'm not one to talk because 'snipereborn' said: Spoiler: I posted that after your post and I'm the one who brought Jazz to -1. But I've learned alot since then, and this was clearly a bad idea for both of us. So, I've got a slight scumtell on you from this, and I think everyone else gets a slight scumtell on me sadface. "I know not whether to admire or pity he who knows nothing of regret." 'Shavey Dave' said: 'Jazz' said: Shave. Following the others paths is not good. Even if they completely convince you you still need to keep an open mind and wonder if those who have convinced you are wrong. There's always a chance that they could be wrong. To go back to this the fact is I suck at mafia so I have to use other people's information to back up my vote and place it. 'Jazz' said: Or Shavey? Yes. Go on. "I suck at mafia". I suppose I could be a jerk and say "AH-HA!!! He admits he's mafia!!!", but instead I'll say that this is a stupid reason to give. Even I realize the "I'm a nood" defense isn't a very good one. 'Shavey Dave' said: Spoiler: Let me get this straight. You reason for voting Silver was that she typed in caps? What? To be fair, later you said: 'Shavey Dave' said: 'Yaya' said: Shavey, you can't just say you voted somebody because they were suspicious. You need a reason that they were suspicious. And drawing a picture won't get you any sympathy, especially if it's less skillfully drawn than Thomas's picture. Don't try and divert the attention. FoS: Shavey I just drew that out of bordem. Isn't it clear that I found Silver suspicious because of her rage? but that's really not that great of a reason. Everyone who said rage and overreacting is a mafia response seems silly to me, so you're in good company on that front. 'Shavey Dave' said: Hmmm. You FoS Jazz, then Silver but you haven't voted them. Obviously your better at mafia games than me but I sometimes find your caution to vote slightly frustrating. Never the less we'd have a lynch way, way to early if every one voted. Like I said in my previous post we still have eight days to go. This is consistent with your early vote on Jazz and is similar to what I said about realizing that was a bad idea. Not sure what to make of it. Could be either a slight town read or a pro-mafia player. I suppose, then, that this relies on whether or not I believe you're as bad as you're claiming. I'll reserve judgement on this one. 'Shavey Dave' said: Orly? I voted Silver because she was most suspicious. I voted her when I logged in and I found two other people had voted her. Besides you seem very keen on voting just because I voted after two others. Maybe whats happening is that your mafia and I'm town. You know I'm not mafia so you vote me. Just sayin' FoS: Thomas I understand what you're saying about the two votes before you. Null read on that. You're argument for FoS-ing Thomas seems a bit artificial to me; what I mean by that is that I feel like you are acting. To be blunt, this feels like a mafia pretending to be town and blaming a town of the exact same thing. Slight scum read. 'Shavey Dave' said: 'Isa' said: Jellsprout, ponder the following theoretical scenario: Thomas is in this game and he is acting like he did in the original Interguild mafia game. Would you lynch him? You're excusing players for acting scummy because they have done it previously. This is not good at all, it gives scum a free pass if they were scum the last time around. Let's pretend that Shavey Dave is town here. How would you expect Shavey Dave to act if he was scum and how would it differ from his current play? And regardless - was he a hypocrite in the last game? That's what I am accusing him of. List of good votes: Shavey Dave, Jazz, shos, Yaya Everyone, feel free to sheep me for free townpoints and a swift victory. @Dando, can you post a link to each vote count in the first post of the thread? It'd make them more accessible. I've provided the current ones for you. 1.1 1.2 Maybe I wasn't like this last game because previously I have played so poorly that I wan't to 'change my style'. While I wouldn't read as much into this as Shos seems to, it does seem a weird way of saying it. Why not just "I wanted to change my style this game because I was doing badly with the old one"? Anyway, very, very slight scum read. I'll get to the other some other time. I've been at this too long and my eyes hurt. Everyone runs faster with a knife. | |
| snipereborn | ||
| Fact Squisher Age: 31 Karma: 136 Posts: 1307 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, United States pm | email |
Actually, the reasons I have for Jazz, Thomas, and Silver havn't changed. So just look at my older posts. Also, I know I have a contradiction of sorts in my reasoning between my telling soccer to vote even if it looks like a bandwagon and criticizing shavey for bandwagoning. The reason that this isn't actually a contradiction is that I said bandwagoning is ok if you have good reasoning. I feel soccer could have had good reasoning, but none of shavey's explanations were very good. Everyone runs faster with a knife. | |
| jazz | ||
Karma: 108 Posts: 3050 pm | email |
I'd like to complain now but I have piano lessons right now. | |
| jazz | ||
Karma: 108 Posts: 3050 pm | email |
Ok. Sniper, can you repost your suspicions of me over here? | |
| jazz | ||
Karma: 108 Posts: 3050 pm | email |
Exactly two hours after I left! | |
| Thomas | ||
| the clique shall prevail Karma: 111 Posts: 2503 Gender: Female Location: clique pm | email |
Oops I forgot to post here earlier but I'm really damn busy for the next few days and there's a Canucks game tomorrow so don't expect much from me until Thursday - Friday afternoon. | |
| jazz | ||
Karma: 108 Posts: 3050 pm | email |
Nevermind, I was going to vote Soccer but then you guys would have jumped down my throats and said 'STOP BANDWAGONING DAMMIT' so yeah, nevermind. (ooh, wind's picking up) Anyways, considering Silver played the same in all her games, including the game that sucked, it's really hard to tell what her true motive is. I think she raged at least once in all games. 'snipereborn' said: About Silver Huh. I see two possibilities here. 1. Silver is mafia and was trying to rage her way out of suspicion. 2. Silver is town and raged because she flipped mafia in three consecutive games and was then lynched in another game because of that. Plus Thomas seemed to be twisting her words a bit. Thomas' attack also came right after Silver FoS'd him. Mafia revenge? I know what I just said about reasonable doubt. In this instance, case two seems way more likely to me. That being said, Silver is not free of my suspicion, but Thomas looks a bit more iffy to me, so UnFoS FoS: Thomas I don't think I'm allowed to FoS more than one person unless my role says so, right? Otherwise I'd add Silver for good measure. Wouldn't just be Thomas being an assertive player and trying to weasel out more information? When you rage, it's easy to slip information (especially if its mafia info). Zoops gotta go now see ya in 15 hours. | |
| snipereborn | ||
| Fact Squisher Age: 31 Karma: 136 Posts: 1307 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, United States pm | email |
'Jazz' said: Ok. Sniper, can you repost your suspicions of me over here? From reading the mafia wiki, I believe the term here is WIFOM, and lots of it. 'Jazz' said: I am a part of Viacom. (counterintuitive?) I wonder who will believe that... 'Jazz' said: I'm a part of Viacom and I'm proud of it. Vote: Harumbai for the random voting stage. 'Jazz' said: 'Jazz' said: Dammit, I have a nosebleed and I lost a ton (maybe actually 50 grams) of blood. Anyways... can we get some discussion from CSD now he's on? No. Give thoughts on the game, not nosebleeds. By the way, who's cop (if we have one)? Who's jack-of-all-trades (if we have one)? Who's (gets shot because is too annoying) Lol, double ninja power. 'Jazz' said: Nah. Who's the mayor? (btw, I was scum with CSD in game 3.) 'Jazz' said: Nobody's gonna answer, so whats the point? Who's the Miller? 'Jazz' said: Nothing... why? Does it matter if people takes things seriously? 'Jazz' said: Ok ok ok I get your point... 'Jazz' said: I'm a part of Viacom and I'm proud of it. Vote: Harumbai for the random voting stage. T'is the first post I made... so you're saying that I need to be serious in a mafia game.  'Jazz' said: ...yeah, because 'OMG ISA WAS THE THIRD TO VOTE ME HE MUST BE MAFIA!!11!!!!' is totally gonna help. Anyways, I gotta finish my homework right now, but lets say... it doesn't really matter if you lynch me... 'Jazz' said: Quote: but lets say... it doesn't really matter if you lynch me... Then I'll revise that. It doesn't matter if you lynch me. (definitive statement) 'Jazz' said: No, I meant it was an insignificant role. So even if I do get lynched nothing important will happen except that it'll narrow down the possibilities. 'Jazz' said: Yes. If I'm lying and if I'm actually a mafioso or an independent you can get Livio to -100 karma me. 'Jazz' said: Wait, sniper has a point. If I die and flip mafia, that will help the group. If I die and flip town, that will narrow down the suspects. The only downside is that you lose a player. Works for you, with the added bonus of the satisfaction of lynching me, and sucks for me who goes to the graveyard. Yeah, I see how you like that. Shave. Following the others paths is not good. Even if they completely convince you you still need to keep an open mind and wonder if those who have convinced you are wrong. There's always a chance that they could be wrong. Anyways, right now I'm going with Jell sprout because I don't see him much now... maybe he's spying on this conversation planning something? Nonvoter and Unfussy everyone I have voted or Foss so far because I'm too lazy to check Foch Jell sprout This one sort of looks like a jester. Oh, btw, the wiki says that lynching the jester could result in the mafia getting two night kills. So I guess we proceed with caution. Everyone runs faster with a knife. | |
| snipereborn | ||
| Fact Squisher Age: 31 Karma: 136 Posts: 1307 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, United States pm | email |
'shos' said: firstly, jazz is at L-1, someone unvote immidiately. what's wrong with you guys? Unvote; Vote: yaya I think that starting from that place and on, it's just mafia trying to get a mislynch, or a newbie Village Idiot(VI).Jazz has made a newbie mistake, and getting so much votes on him is wayyyy over the top. I'd vote Isa for both voting and encouraging people to vote, but he voted too soon. come on guys, someone unvote, I DO NOT WANT HIM AT L-1 'Isa' said: Also - V/LA Friday to Sunday. V/LA = Vacation/Limited Access. Basically I am saying that I won't have the time to play during Friday and Sunday. Sniper, the game has only just started, giving reads for everybody is way too soon. we're not quite out of RVS at all - chill alittle, the starting sarcasm is by almost everyone. my guess is, btw, taht sniper is a townie whose role is to post a narrative once in a while. this could be cool  Depending on what Jazz flips, this might be Chainsaw Defense. Everyone runs faster with a knife. | |
| shos | ||
| ~Jack of all trades~ Age: 31 Karma: 389 Posts: 8273 Gender: Male Location: Israel pm | email |
no lol, but I highly doubt that anyone will be stupid enough to be caught AND lynched on day 1 of day 1 lol. that wagon climbed up WAAY too fast and without thought, such a quick lynch is something that SUPER rarely happens. | |
| Isa | ||
| No. I'm an octopus. Age: 31 Karma: 686 Posts: 7833 Gender: Male Location: Uppsala, Sweden - GMT +1 pm | email |
Agreed, and look, a lynch did not happen. | |
| snipereborn | ||
| Fact Squisher Age: 31 Karma: 136 Posts: 1307 Gender: Male Location: Arizona, United States pm | email |
'shos' said: no lol, but I highly doubt that anyone will be stupid enough to be caught AND lynched on day 1 of day 1 lol. that wagon climbed up WAAY too fast and without thought, such a quick lynch is something that SUPER rarely happens. Ah, I re-read the wiki and apparently there are two different definitions for Chainsaw Defense. I meant the Bodygaurd variant, which is when person A attacks person B and person C attacks person A because of it. If person B flips mafia, then there's a good chance person C is mafia too. Without knowing the alignment of person B, this is a null tell. So Shos, are you and Jazz mafia? Everyone runs faster with a knife. | |
| jazz | ||
Karma: 108 Posts: 3050 pm | email |
V/LA Jan 15-18, 24-7 | |
| jazz | ||
Karma: 108 Posts: 3050 pm | email |
Do you think if I were a mafia I would say 'I'm mafia'? Do you think if I were a townie I would say 'I'm a townie'? No. | |
| Thomas | ||
| the clique shall prevail Karma: 111 Posts: 2503 Gender: Female Location: clique pm | email |
WIFOM. | |
| Thomas | ||
| the clique shall prevail Karma: 111 Posts: 2503 Gender: Female Location: clique pm | email |
When this gets to the point that your defense is "I did what mafia would never do", you're out. Unvote, Vote: Jazz canadianstickdeath, you can either post reads and other information now, or get pressed hard for them in the future. | |
| jazz | ||
Karma: 108 Posts: 3050 pm | email |
XD At first I thought it said 'Whine in front of me'. Ok, so you want me to elaborate, or are you just saying that my reasoning is insufficient? Oops, Ninja'd. | |
| Thomas | ||
| the clique shall prevail Karma: 111 Posts: 2503 Gender: Female Location: clique pm | email |
You say "do you think if I were a mafia I would say 'I'm mafia'" but if the mafia do what people think the mafia would never do then they get off free. See the problem? You are to be destroyed. | |
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