there are no facts here because i have no idea of whether your watching is correct or not.
you said you watched me the first time?

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Massclaim Go.

Prove it or it's not true.

Well this is getting into WIFOM. I now see your motivation for this fake claim but I do not plan on posting that because if I am lynched then that will help you decide on your NK which I am not interested in assisting you with.

I can do neither. There is no ethical way to prove that I am a VT and there is no ethical way for you to prove that you are a watcher (which you aren't).

No I still don't believe he was suspicious of me. Why don't you SHOW me where he suspected me and WHY he suspected me. As for him dying, I have absolutely no control over their kill and it can easily be used to frame others and that's why you don't use it to make a case on someone. It's WIFOM. Only scum do that. You're doing that. You're scum.

He did not say he suspected me. He was questioning me about the WIFOM accusations. Town night actions and the mafia kill are COMPLETELY different things. No, you are not a watcher. I can't even think of WHY there would be a doctor and watcher together in the setup. Even a tracker would make more sense than that.

this is a mini game too...
so yeah, the watcher + doctor setup is weird.
maybe they didn't notice though. jazz might not have a ton of experience with this?

By the way, in the 9 player setup, there is ALWAYS ONLY 2 PR's for the town. At night I received this message which makes me think that someone else is a PR and I would like them to step forward. This will make for confirmed town, at least for me.

Oh yeah and then with that other PR, it means shos is scum.

what is pr?

also, is there an independent?

PR = power role
No indie in a 9 player game unless there's some crazy setup.

By the way, this is not a normal setup.

Define normal?

Yes, there is no point in convincing my scum reads that I am town when they already know I am and they are attempting a malicious scandal such as this.

1. Yes and I did that [lead Silver wagon] because she was scummy. You bandwagoned it and you even planned to vote Silver if she got more votes. This means that you didn't care who got lynched. You just wanted anybody lynched. It blames you for 1) making the third vote on a mislynch 2) easily lynching Silver but not helping to lynch your partner. You are now my suspect because of process of elimination. Yesterday I thought that if it's not Silver then it's gotta be you. Now I'm 99.9% sure it's you because of this scandal.
2. I thought this would go without saying considering you were put at L-1 in the past (and your partner was already dead so the best thing to do is fake-claim) for being scummy. Go back and see why you were put and L-1. NO, you didn't know/prove that soccerboy protected himself, he already posted who he protected on N1. I never 100% believe your role claim shos. Please do not make false accusations. Not even yesterday and not even today. Both were before you accused me so you are talking out of your rear end.

If there's apparently facts (there aren't), POST THEM. Believe and convince are pretty much the same thing but I think believe is stronger.

Thank you for your thought process. I made a correction in the above quote though. I think you made a typo there.

I really don't understand why you used the word "dangerous." Jellsprout being town is the complete opposite of dangerous, at least for those who are town-aligned. However, from your view of things (mafia view), jellsprout is dangerous considering he predicted the mafia correctly on page 4 of D1. Why do you refer to jellsprout as a "townie" when you are recounting your thought process from the past? You shouldn't know he's a townie until the flip... unless you're scum. And then why do you call jell experienced? Is it because he predicted the scum team correctly? I wasn't even sure if he was scum until he was dead. Null read on him because I felt he wasn't posting very much but he did make pro-town posts.

Okay I see that but it was very general and he had a town read on me earlier in the day and nothing suggests it changed apart from that post but I'm still sure he suspected you WAYYY more than he suspected me (if he even did suspect me).

I did it? ALL of us (except Kooler) were involved in it and you CAN'T single me out here. Silver flipping town makes you look bad because I thought that if Silver flipped town then you have gotta be scum. It's process of elimination.

I had not seen Silver's flip yet. After seeing Silver's flip I knew it was you. And I posted that I suspected you as soon as possible.

Yes and even if you didn't it doesn't really mean you weren't suspicious in the past. "Who cares if they saved a puppy or helped grandma cross the street. It doesn't change the fact that they robbed that bank, burned down an orphanage, and ran over someone in their car. 'look at all the good I've done!' isn't an argument against crime."

How is that a good reason to suspect someone. For example, assume the police have five suspects for a murder. Four of the suspects are in a database because they have offended in the past. The last suspect is NOT in the database because he has not offended in the past. Would that be a good idea for the police to arrest the fifth suspect because he is not in their database? No. Is it a good idea to lynch someone here because they have not been suspected? No.

I am not flying under the radar, no. Back this up or it isn't true.

It's not possible to defend myself when you make a fake claim and accuse me of being scum.

"a someone"? I am not sure who did that but that is perfectly fine because as I already stated above, no matter how many good things you do, we won't ignore the bad things. You did scummy things, I will not ignore that.

School.

What has changed then between this above quote and the below quote:Only hours apart...

???
How is the following not scummy?

Hint: Shos thought jell was dangerous.

Well if we do want to lynch him we need my vote. I want to see what shos flips. I'm more convinced he's mafia than town. Hearing what shos said in relation to what Thomas has said makes me want to vote shos.

Vote: shos

Please flip mafia.

Thank you Shavey Dave and GG guys.

Okay I'm gonna sleep now and I believe Isa is away until Sunday so either shos can come clean or we can wait for Jazz.

Not just yet!

Final Vote Count:
shos (3) - Thomas, soccerboy13542, Shavey Dave
Thomas (1) - Shos

The day had barely started as accusations began to be thrown around. Shos pointed his twisted finger at Thomas at once.
"I saw him sneaking out of his room to visit Jellsprout! He must have killed him!"
"What? No shos, you're lying!" responded Thomas. "Gather round me, everyone! I shall lead you to glorious times, once we get rid of this scum! My lead word is WIFOM, and with the aid of that, I shall rule the city!"
"That guy seems like a good one." Soccerboy13542 and Shavey Dave thought. "Let's join him."

AND SO...

Shos was a Mafia Goon.

CONGRATULATIONS TO TOWN, YOU HAVE WON!

Setup:

Mafia Rolecop - Bmwsu
Mafia Goon - Shos

Vanilla Townie * 4 - Thomas, Jellsprout, Silver, Yuggy
Cop - Kooler
Doctor - soccerboy13542
Baker - Shavey Dave

Baker - Each night, a Baker may give a piece of bread to another person. When the Baker is killed, town starves after three days and every town member without a bread dies.

Night actions:

Night 1:
shos kills Yuggy
Soccerboy protects himself
Kooler and Shavey Dave does nothing (unless Shavey Dave sent his night action to Jazz)

Night 2:
shos kills jellsprout
Soccerboy protects shos
Shavey Dave gives a piece of bread to Thomas
Kooler does nothing

Thoughts on the game:
I am not allowing Kooler into games that I mod.
Thomas did remarkably good, especially during the end of day 3.
Jellsprout was even better, having 100% accurate reads.
Soccerboy - NEVER OPENLY DECLARE WHO YOU'LL TARGET AS A DOC. Scum obviously won't target the person you say that you'll target...so NEVER, EVER do that. Words of advice.
shos killing Jellsprout was stupid. Even if you got Thomas lynched, how would you deal with the following day where everybody knows that you lied?

Lurkers kill the game.

Good game, everyone.  

shos stating that he watched thomas killing jell totally backstabbed him  

ah, I was just starting to type responses but I see that the game is over already I'll make my comments then instead congratz guys, you got lucky against my foolproof plan!

firstly, thomas, your posts are totally bad, you know. you realy don't know how to defend yourself. seriously. Shavey is very easily manipulated so you got this one, but if I had time to comment, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have voted me. it's jsut that today I was in the army and other important places from like 6 am till now which is 6:15 pm for me..

secondly, jazz, you can't just come and post 'this is not a normal game'. it is not your job, and it was pro-mafia this time. everything was playing right into my hands. and thomas' posts were going to be easily answered, because everything he said was just random words seemed to be put together and 'back this up or this isn't true' which si the lamest thing ever; jumping to conclusions for lots of stuff taht were definitely wrong. If I posted, I'm pretty sure shavey would have been convinced. but he didn't let me post, even tho it was a lylo, so oh well

and yea, I should have phrased myself better, this is what happens when you rush posts while at work I wanted to say dangerous to *others* aka thomas, jell and shavey, but look what happened, and that convinced shavey =\you do know that I haven't said anything in response to thomas, right? XDlol

and for the setup: kooler was a cop? this must have seriously ruined the game lol. the baker seems like a very stupid role - since we were a minigame, and therefore it is likely that the game will end in 3/4 days, so 'after' three days from baker's death is nothing useful. oh and if we're dealing with that: why is a doctor and a watcher in the same game a bad setup? I rushed through the mafia wiki to find a role to fakeclaim, and I thought it was genious; if I had convinved others that I was indeed a watcher, this has been the lylo, cuz kooler is still there. without that, I had no chance at all when bmw died. woah, bmw's death was so quick and stupid, and he was a rolecop! I almost won

about your thoughts - I don't think thomas was that good. yes, he was obviously correct, but his defenses and offenses lacked alot, and I think I could counter them quite easily. jell was the best ever, but I had to wait for the right time to kill him, and I dazzled alot between killing him or anyone else on the last night, thinking who I could possibly blame that people will wagon and not launch an attack against me. wel thomas lead them well against me, so I had no chance to keep trying. about soccerboy - how comes he can protect himself? he could just do it again and again and he can't die, even if I kill everyone else.. stuff like this need to be prevented upon setup!! I thought that he just couldn't, and didn't want to say it out loud or something.

and about me, who cares everybody knows I lied? we are 5, if thomas dies is 4, which makes 3 to lynch. with kooler inactive, I'm done. not to mention the fact that I can have an extra kill, but that doesn't matter much.

this was a good game, it kept me thinking I like being mafia, it was dammm fun although it was more of an independent, cuz bmw died before we could even talk(night talk only..). this was very puzzling to me, cuz I didn't know what to do; if I lead a lynch on him, clearly it'll happen, but i'll be sort of lynchproof. and if I don't, the lynch might not happen...

it didn't backstab me alone - if I had time, i think I would win. cuz shavey was REAAALLY easily manipulated. baker eh?  

I'M SO HAPPY TOWN HAVE WON EVEN THOUGH I PLAYED SO BADLY! WHOOO!

No, Shavey had no night action on day one. i was actually hoping for Shavey to get killed so I could make a 'Dawn of Day# 72 hours remaining' reference.

I think he went down way faster because of the claim of watching me on D3.

No, I was pro-town and I played really well in this game (according to Isa). Only YOU voted me in this game and you are scum so I must have been obvtown. Did you really think you, as a scummy player could lynch me, a pro-town/obvtown player? I'm not sure if Shavey Dave actually took your side there because he didn't vote or anything. He could have been messing with you for a reaction or something. However that proves that if he was suspicious of me then he must have had second thoughts about voting me because I was pro-town but he didn't have second thoughts about voting you.

It's hard to explain why doc + watcher is a bad setup but it just doesn't fit. It sounds like it was made a complete random because town PR's usually aren't distanced like a doc + watcher setup feels.

Shos, you need to bus your partner when they make a bad slip like the slip Bmwsu made. Instead you just FoSed and went after someone else for some pretty bad reasons.

Graveyard access?