Town cleanly lost the most horribly town-sided setup I've seen, and scum successfully killed off the only town players that played decently.

More details later, but I'll grant people access to the graveyard so you can find my rants there. I was NOT happy with shos. =p

lol I was almost scum

So does this also serve as the endgame topic?

I suppose.

Thomas is still of the belief he played well. He sent me a sarcastic PM about me being 'MVP'.

Everyone in town that was alive at the final day played very poorly. I think the only ones that get an acceptable grade are Soccerboy and Yaya.

I really should have tried a bit harder, given my correct reads other than Thomas, however do you really blame me for thinking Thomas is scum after his play like that eg accidentally ending a day, refusing to accept the fact that if I was scum the day would be over, etc. ?

You actively did not contribute to discussion for a majority of the game, instead posting stuff like...I don't know, self-votes? Or this, just a sample from a random page on a random day:


Besides (and I posted this a few times in the Graveyard), your reads don't matter at all if you can't force a lynch on whoever you wanted to lynch.

I blame everyone in town for the Thomas lynch, but especially you since you were the only one on it...because really, he was MOD-CONFIRMED CHANSEY. Chansey =/= Ditto. You lynched mod-confirmed town. No excuses.

Now that I can talk here, no. Shos gave him a role that didn't specify that it would end the day. He even gave out the role pm so read it over. For the second part, I agree.

@DARVINCE. WHY THE HECK DIDN'T YOU SAY THAT I TOLD YOU TO KILL JELLSPROUT.

you know, not that it would matterr... but i wanted my vengeance

I said accidentally.

Accidentally what? kill thomas?

I meant that I knew he accidentally ended the day after reading the graveyard, but obviously not at the time.

Just to add some humor and show that even if I'm not content with this game, I'm not infallible - from the graveyard:

lol.

my analysis of the lylo was lolful.
as a start, my mechanics were terribly protown it seems. If Isa was kept alive for just ONE successful kill, town would be in much bigger trouble. but as it seems, none of the mafia kills went wrong; thomas successfully protected himself when he needed and failed to understand thathis self-protect power was X-shot I think. maybe I phrased it bad, dunno, we had a few pms later.

So overall, back to the lylo analysis:
Thomas was modconfirmed town.
Flashmarsh was modconfirmed town, since if he was scum he'll never die.
Darvince was confirmed town since nobody CCed his Mason claim.
HOW THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN.
Sniper claimed squirtle, and flashmarsh did not notice that he was the ONLY POKEMON IN THE SETUP that hasn't evolved, so sniper is confscum.
Jell's claim was wonderfully lucky.
Jorster's claim was weak as hell, and I don't understand how thomas let it slide so long; he knows he is a powerful doc, why would there also be a 2-shot weak one, and in the form of WEEZING? :/ there too flash could nail the pokemon-that-hasn't-evolved.
I have no idea how the scum let thomas live after he proved himself unlynchable and un-NK-able, having CLAIMED that he is no longer that(before he said he lied).

So it shoulda been some sort of 3p lylo eventually containing Harumbai, Jellsprout, and probably Darvince.

~~~
other thoughts:
the masons used their QT like people use antibacterial covers for soundbooks in broadway. this means they did not make a single good use of it imo

overall: you guys need to take mafia less intimately. you can't just get furious and go balls to the walls against someone even if it is against your WC, and you can't be rude(IT GETS YOU SUSPENDED AHEM AHEM AND DELAYS THE GAME ahah), and you need to be more active, even if not hardcore. investing 10-15 minutes a day is good enough if you're playing just one game, trust me.

Soooo uh. about myself: I modded well, made only one real mistake and good thing soccerboy died and it did not matter xD but my setup was horribly balanced.

The scum's changing-wincondition is something Isa considered bad but is considered ok in the wiki, just not common. I wanted to make a setup in which everyone has an interesting part - that's why it became too townsided. the VTs were all people, btw.
so the flavor hints - nobody even tried to seek for them - were in flashmarsh's pm and in the VTs.

I don't understand how the mafia didn't kill Flash when they knew his role. it is essentially a conftown, why did you shoot soccerboy? :S


so overall the game's quality wasn't up in the sky, but also not THAT low imo. if Isa wasn't killed it could be neat; the fact that he claimed Miller was a cool gambit - although he did not know if there was a cop!! if a massclaim arrived he would automatically be taken down if therew wasn't one - well there was, but he didn't know that.

so uh. yeah...

I have to say that I put as much effort as I could into making this game fun for you, so I hope you guys enjoyed. I enjoyed modding for the first time, even if it's bad - you learn from mistakes and grow slowly to be better.

Why are you saying like it's obvious that I should have noticed this. This seems exceptionally obsucre, at least to me, especially since I know nothing about Pokemon.

I agree with Isa that the organization was pretty terrible. The set-up was pretty lousy, with the Mafia only having a 2/3 chance at succeeding their NK at best and the SK with only 1/2 chance at succeeding at a kill.
13 people was also too many people when there are barely enough people to fill a 10 player roster. And not only was the roster too big, you rushed the game to start, forcing many people to enter who didn't even want to in the first place. I think that was the most important cause of the inactivity.

I want to rant some more about the unbalanced set-up. We were lucky all our NKs went through and that there were so many inactive people in the game. But a 2/3 chance at succeeding at a kill and that chance dropping to 1/3 when one Mafia member dies is just plain terrible. In the QuickTopic on Night 1 Jorster posted the following:

The reason of this was because I actually was trying to get Jorster lynched at that time. In any ordinary game it would be impossible for the Mafia to win with their normal victory condition. So I tried to play an important role in the Jorster wagon. If Jorster got lynched and flipped scum, few people would suspect me because of the role I played in the lynch. Then I would try to get Sniper lynched the following day before he would realize I was betraying him and use my Town-cred to push for a lynch on whoever my Lynchee target would be.
But then Jazz got lynched, we managed to NK Isa and activity dropped. There was also no chance of Thomas and Flash agreeing on anything, so the lynches stopped and we could just pick off all active players one by one. At that time I also thought up the Mew fake claim and started targeting Sniper, so in case things went wrong I could claim I investigated Sniper and that he turned out scum and then go for my secondary win condition again.

Pretty terrible game.

Edit: Oh yes, about the following:

At that time we thought Thomas was a confirmed Town who couldn't die except by NK. We hadn't found the Doctor yet either. I thought it was pretty obvious Thomas would get protected that night.
We also knew at that time Soccerboy was a Mason. So both Soccerboy and his fellow Mason would know about each other but also about Thomas they were Town. So the two of them could just follow Thomas in a lynch and there was almost a lynch already. By killing Soccerboy we crippled the other Mason to an ordinary VT. No Doctor would expect a Soccerboy lynch, so with one easy action we would collapse a powerful three Townie front to one confirmed Townie and an unconfirmed VT.
The following night it was again obvious Thomas would get protected and Yaya was blowing too much activity into the game. By taking out Yaya we would again reduce the game to inactivity and cruise to victory.

It's not hard to research - and if your role PM stated that nobody else was a Not Fully Evolved pokemon, I don't think it's too much to ask of you to check the claims. If you get such a piece of information and don't make use of it, don't claim to know what you're doing.
(Weezing is a fully evolved Pokémon though.)

The Mason kill was good, the Yaya kill was lucky - I would have killed Darvince that night.

Thomas was horribly bad this game, letting Jorster skate by as a Doc despite knowing that he's one himself and NEVER, EVER pushing for him, instead saying that it's likely there's more than one protective role in the setup.

Jellsprout played excellently (but I still had him as scum for quite some time) and was the best player in the game, with Snipereborn at second - he didn't fool me, but he seems to have fooled everyone else. Yaya and Soccerboy played decently, rest of town should take lessons from the Mafia and the Serial Killer in how to look town...

The only thing I really have to comment on (EDIT AFTER WRITING THIS POST: well, I guess that wasn't the only thing) is that at the time of writing it, I really did think Sniper was "probably" town. He had a very good play IMO, until he started trying to lynch Yuggy which was highly out of character with my previous conceptions of him. The problem with my role was that all mafia came back as "unsuccessful" in my results, BUT I was meant to figure this out due to there being no roleblockers, and the fact that both Jorster and Jellsprout's results came back unsuccessful was a strong giveaway. I "unsuccessfully" investigated Snipereborn the night I died.

While I had suspicions about Jellsprout from just reading the three days I hadn't played, I acknowledge that he definitely held his own. Even though you did stick out to me, you seemed to have it all figured out. I could not find anyway to counter your response to me putting you at L-1 besides unvoting (MY BIGGEST REGRET ABOUT THIS GAME). And I legitimately gasped a little when I saw how thought out your claim was.

Jorster... That still pretty much sums up my thoughts of his performance. While his play was absolute ****, it was absolute **** in a way that most suspected him as an absolute **** townie before a mafioso trying to be townie, but coming off as absolute ****. I doubt this was on purpose.

I can't find this one post by Jellsprout, but in one of the days he said the game was rushed and the roster was frontloaded with noobies. I agree with him. While the setup can partially be to blame, the players (any and all of them) didn't help. We had noobs, cynics, trolls, MIAs, and just below average performances all around for the town. While I feel like my one day of being in the game improved some areas of my previous games, I definitely think I could've done better if I had been more confident in my suspicions/theories and wasn't afraid to stick my neck out. And obviously playing for more than one day probably would've helped too.

Fellow townies, we tried. Soccerboy probably did the best of the town, I don't think that needs elaborating. Thomas, while your style often has results, it must be played in such a way that it comes off as serious and competent. The way you played this game was your usual style except it came off as unprofessional, annoying and repetitive. Partially due to rage I guess, but just nope. I feel like Darvince and Flashmarsh could've done better if they posted more, both had their issues with staying civil and serious, but I felt they had potential when they were actually trying. I don't really have any opinions on Harumbai. He obviously did good enough since he didn't get lynched and I don't think there were any major wagons against you during the game, but your play wasn't very memorable. I don't have many thoughts on Isa since he was killed long before I joined, but unlike Soccer, your play didn't have much of an impact later in the game. No point in critiquing Yuggy and Shavey.

Shos's first time (MODDING) was a little rough, but I appreciated how he stuck with it. I think that with all the inactivity, flame wars, and other stuff, other mods would've frustrated and might've taken extreme measures, but he was enjoying himself for the most part and stayed level headed. While the setup may have been flawed, I could tell that he tried to make it with "fun" in mind. My role was definitely one of the more balanced ones, despite me not being too happy with the catch . You just need a little more practice, Shos. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who's never modded and doesn't want to, so my critique isn't worth very much, IMO. Only serious advice I can give is in the future, you should totally use "town flip=blue text, scum flip=red text, unknown/indy flip=yellow/green text". While it unintentionally marked me as town right away (It was a serious question lol. I wasted such an opportunity being nearly-conf. town), it definitely threw me off due to all past games using the method in quotes.

As usual, I think we all could use a nice break from mafia. Especially since I'm sure half the roster blacklisted each other in Days 2 and 3.

NINJA'D: Jell magically sums up that post I was looking for in the post that he ninja'd me with!

lol thanks for the input guys, appreciate it.

mafia games ont he IG will probably not happen again, hehe. I was thinking with Isa somewhen about a CRAZY MAD open setup for 7 players and that it might be run over here. I also talked about it on MS and had people see and examine it. I can share it here if you wish, but it'll porbably be just for discussion.

the whole inactivity, rushing, etc etc thing is correct imo. I couldn't make the setup work in less players tho, a micro should have worked better than a mini but that would require a different setup.

oh well, I consider it good experience, as long as everyone's ok with the result even if they lost (don't jump!!) and am accepting any criticism/advice you may give me

I think what did the town in:
1). I still had some town cred from earlier in the game.
2). Thomas didn't think about how his claim would look, or else didn't realize that it look very bad. Even though he technically told the truth from his perspective, it look super bad that he first lied about his role and then claimed a super powerful one.
3). I was the only one who even sideways mentioned the fact that shos told us thomas was a chancey.

I would like to defend flash for not noticing the evolved pokemon thing. Even a veteran pokemon player might be confused by that, for instance thomas was chancey, a pokemon which had not evolved, jell claimed mew, another unevolved pokemon. Looking at it now it's clear that you meant only pokemon that COULD evolve, but if I had his role I wouldn't have thought to ask about that at the beginning of the game and you'd be a bad mod if you answered it at the end of the game.

I think I did ok as scum, not amazing, but well enough (apparently). The change in my play happened around day 2 or 3 when I was getting bored and stopped caring about keeping track of what I was pretending to be.

Thomas had good points in the final day, but the problem was that they were surrounded by terrible, terrible points, so all I had to do was drag him into the mud with me and flash wouldn't change his vote, plus the other townies would be in a bad position where they aren't sure which one of us is the scum, possibly leading to a no lynch. I don't know if anyone caught the effect, but I was trying to subtly undermine thomas' credibility the entire game, not just the last part.

I suddenly realize that Chansey is also a Not-Fully Evolved Pokemon. She evolves into Blissey. So even without Sniper's fake claim the role PM was incorrect.

That is true. I was stuck in a Gen 1 mindset, but seeing as Togepi is from GSC, there's no excuses. =p

wth, I was in a Gen 1 mindset too; Togepi counts as 151, yes, but he is there from the beginning of the series, so...meh.
Chansey's evolution is Gen2+ too. it's like if charmandar-charmillion-charizard are 1-2-3, chansey is 4 and his evolution is 345 >_>

well that was a tiny bit I added, it wasn't supposed to take over the game anyway. You did good as scum and I think Jell too.

I believe I said it somewhere, that the game is based on Gen 1 alone...