Shos: 1st off, don't hold  me accountable on not immediately unvoting Jazz, cuz he only became L-1 while I was eating dinner; thankfully you guys took care of that (I'll leave the vote on for now to keep on pressure Jazz, but I'll unvote if needed) . I'm a bit confused as to why you voted me, besides that I hold one of the supposed "scum votes". I don't like to use that as evidence though, cuz sometimes things just line up in which a town votes 3rd/4th/5th; if everyone purposely tried to avoid that spot, we'd never get a lynch, successful or not. Maybe you just don't want to lose a partner (you could be the staff-scum, or maybe Isa for his odd reaction to L-1).

Snipereborn: Yeah, I was planning to post this morning about not suspecting you anymore, but the Interguild was down for me (and I'm pretty sure everyone else). It wasn't even suspicions, I just random ass guessed you, and I happened to random ass guess the guy who's roleplaying this to the max and the only one to give his stance on all players so far. I hope you believe my claim of meaning to post something instead of thinking I'm saying this to get on your good side.

Isa: Since I used the same argument for myself, I should probably try and use it in Shavey's defense. When it's a lynch that actual is dead serious and later in the game, the "scum votes" could shed some light. I think the charge against Jazz was just a spur of the moment thing, not coordinated action planted by the mafia.

(man, I just got like triple quadruple ninja'd, lol. I feel like I have something to say about the 3 4 posts that've surpassed me, but I can't think of anything for now. Also Shos, I imagined you saying nnnnnope like Chuck Testa, lol.)

actually this would make sense, since he posted in the day 0. no one does that lol

Unvote: Jazz

this is just for now... just got back from school, it seems like he is at l-1.

his comment about -100 karma seemed odd though. like he's trying too hard to say he's town.

I understand having goofy reasons, but even claiming mafia as a joke is a bad decision for a townie. Yes I know it was early and random and we can't really read too much because of circular logic. My point was that it looks like you're saying "Come on guys, I'm clearly town. Don't be stupid". It makes me think. I wouldn't vote for you because of this, but it makes me cross my arms and squint at you.

as has been said earlier, this happens at the beginning of every game.
there is no possible way to figure out who it could be on the first day, unless the make some realllllly bad move (fake overpowered role, something along those lines)
or like in one of our previous games, there was a random vote from i think, guyguy, to one of his rl friends, so he could annoy him.

That's all well and good, but it's still a manipulation technique. Even an experienced player will be subconsciously affected by a mafia claim, if not out rightly so. You can make all sorts of idiotic reasons in RVS, why this one? For instance, had I been on, I would have voted Yaya in RVS because he's the fourth person on the list and 4 is the IEEE standard random number, therefor making him the most likely to flip mafia. That's an absolutely retarded argument, and not something that could really cause suspicion for anyone involved.
Even though I'm not convinced, I'll give it a rest for now. I simply think that a mafia claim at any time is foolish for either a townie or a mafioso.

I agree with this, which is why I put it in brackets. I don't doubt for a moment that scum can create mislynch opportunities, especially if you look at the player base. Do you think CSDscum could create a mislynch while being the first vote? I do. Do you think Isascum could create a mislynch while being the first vote? I do.

The "third/fourth/fifth/sixth/Nth vote is scum" is essentially meaningless, at least with experienced players who know how to create cases.

Anyway, our next wagon should be Shavey Dave, because my attack on him isn't related to when he voted, but rather that he FoS'ed Jazz, got flak for it because he didn't vote, voted because he was told to and then gave flak to the ones who used FoS'es - it's not like the reasoning I gave was superb.

(inb4shossaysNEWBMISTAKES)

I agree with this. Even though I don't have any experience with mafia, except for reading previous games, arguments of this type seem pointless. There are too many factors in play to judge a vote based on it's place in the order and nothing else.

I'm not sure about Shavey Dave. Your reasoning might be right Isa... or maybe he just doesn't like being yelled at. I get no read from that behavior.

You know, making multiple cracks about other player's methods doesn't look very good. It seems like you're trying to make us think Shos is doing something wrong- which I don't necessarily disagree with. You and Shos aren't exactly townie-of-the-month material...

If he didn't like being yelled at, he sure didn't show it.

Why are there so many people defending him? Shos defending him because "he's a newb because he hammered me when I was scum", and now you and Yaya.

Yes I know that's not what you said shos, but essentially, that's what it boils down to. There might be a case for Shavey Noob, but that's not it.

PEdit: How so, Yaya? Elaborate on how I've failed you.

Yaya, are you mafia-aligned?

So Isa what's the deal with the Shavey Dave wagon? Do you intend to get Shavey Dave lynched?

I'm didn't mean to directly defend Shavey. I'm ok with a wagon, but not a lynch. The point of that would be to get information. The more we can get the mafia to talk, the more evidence we have to analyze.
By mafia, I mean whoever they are, not my current suspicions. I think we should lurker hunt a bit.

Maybe. Depends on reactions, etc. It's a good start for a wagon.

Sniper, Shavey Dave currently has one vote. Do you think he's in immediate risk of being lynched? I don't, so vote him and get another healthy wagon going for more information - the Jazz wagon has already been defused.

On that note, I got my eye on Soccerboy who follows the crowd and unvotes, but doesn't add a whole lot more to the table.

Edit: I suppose that should say Snipe rather than Sniper. I think of you as Sniper-Reborn, magically adding an extra R. =p

Okay let's try this:

Unvote, Vote: Shavey Dave

I'd actually prefer a wagon on Harumbai. He hasn't said anything.
[b[ Unvote
Vote: Harumbai[/b]

Edit:
Isa, that's actually what it's supposed to be. I just say that sniper and reborn share their r because they're best friends.

opps
Unvote
Vote: Harumbai

That won't bear any fruit.

This thread was created at Wednesday, January 4 2012, 5:35 pm.

Harumbai simply hasn't been online. There's no point in voting him at this point since he doesn't even know the game has started.

My bad.
Unvote
Vote: Shavey Dave

I disagree. 3rd and 4th voters do have a slightly higher chance of being scum, though I wouldn't base a case on it. It is a reason to keep closer eye on those people.
But what I find far more interesting is the psychology it plays on people. People know that being the 3rd/4th voter is a scumtell, especially after CSD and Thomas used it in the previous games. So instead, scum might actively try to avoid the 3rd/4th vote. Look at Silver for example:
When Jazz had two votes Silver posted and expressed a mild irritation at his posts. But she didn't vote. But Isa and Yaya give two more votes, and suddenly Silver seems willing to vote for him. Granted, it was only a FoS because she was afraid to lynch him this early, but it is still curious to see. As I said, it only turned out to be a FoS instead of a vote, so I don't actually suspect Silver yet. Perhaps a very slight scum read, but nothing serious.

What I find even more interesting is how things will turn out now that I have reminded you all of this. Town is afraid to get killed, but scum is afraid to get caught. So most scum will actively try to avoid all scumtells. But now that I have told you about this, the scum will try to avoid avoiding all the scumtells. I can tell you from experience, it is very difficult to act natural when you are scum. And me adding to the confusion like this won't help. Know that you will screw up, either by acting too scummy or not scummy enough, and that I will be there to catch you doing it.

You are now scumming manually.


Sniper, voting is pointless if there is no fear of a lynch. You can bring Shavey to L-1, but as long as there is still more than a week to go he knows there is no chance of a lynch. Extending the day to gain more information is generally a good idea, but if the game reaches a stalemate then there is no point in stalling and we should just lynch the most scummy person. The early bandwagon and reveal will both provide new information than doing nothing would.

Ok, seriousness starting now.

Unvote: Harumbai because he hasn't been on...

I'm not gonna jump on Shavey's wagon... not right now.

And what's a Jester? (in a mafia game)
So it's still the RVS? Vote: Soccerboy

All good...


...nevermind.

Jazz, what makes you think it's the RVS?

Narrative

The discussion was growing heated. Accusations flew willy-nilly. Snipe shuddered. This was going badly and promised to only get uglier. He had deep suspicious for a coworker named Jazz. The man seemed to fit the profile. His lighthearted and carefree approach to the situation unnerved Snipe. Who could deal with viscous murder of two colleagues with such nonchalance?

And then there was Isa. He was slick and intelligent. The perfect assassin. Or motor oil. But he seemed to be involved in the hunt. Could Snipe's famous person reading ability be wrong?

After three hours, they all decided that a break was in order. Snipe returned to his office and retrieved his journal from its hiding place in his desk. As he was writing, Snipe saw something out of the corner of his eye. Someone had been peering into his office through the small slits in the closed blinds! He grabbed a paperweight, hoping to use it as a weapon, and lunged towards the door. Wrenching it open, he burst into the hallway and looked around wildly for the wraith he had seen at the window.

He was alone in an empty hallway.

Um, I thought the first day sometimes starts with RVS?

That is, if you want to?