if we need bandwagoning to get a lynch done TODAY, so be it.

it takes 6 votes to lynch, and unless you can get the 6 people who aren't bandwagoning to confirm, we'll need this.

Soccer, I believe you have an abnormal definition of bandwagoning. Bandwagoning is always bad because it voting for a player just because other people are.
Voting for someone because you agree with arguments against them is occasionally called bandwagoning erroneously. The tricky part is that it's pretty easy for the mafia to claim to just be convinced when they're actually just wagoning.
I don't think saying these things makes you look good.

And with Silver being on for nearly 2 hours, refreshing consistently, and even posting on the one post topic, I'm voting her.
Unvote, Vote: Silver
I know I've barely had my vote on Kooler but it's pretty pitiful how shifty Silver is. Forget spriting, or playing games; anybody (especially somebody who's in her position) should be checking mafia posts when they refresh frequently. The whole relation between you and Thomas seems too played out to be unplanned, especially the whole RC thing. It's pretty obvious you're trying to hide by a.) not posting while online b.) actually hiding c.) posting excuses/trivial posts. Silver seems like the best way to go for now.

Lol Yaya it's called keeping tabs. =P


Wow did the conversation really look like that? When I look at it it looks somewhat normal (for lack of a better word).

Keeping tabs? You refresh the Interguild, you signed up to play a game where you can get scrutinized for not posting, you are directly addressed multiple times, still don't post, and finally just say you were keeping tabs? Not buying it, sorry.

You actually went back and looked? I didn't bother because I already know that we and not affiliated with each other in any way. Or at least not that I'm aware of. Anyway I don't like where jell said that if Silver flips scum then I'm scum as well and what if Silver does not flip scum? Am I null or town or something?

In my eyes this is how I see it;

1. Silver flips town. Suspicions against you will probably be lessened. People probably won't think that makes you 100% town, but it'll definitely derail the case against you (that's at least what I'll do. I won't automatically assume you're town, but you'll surely fall lower on my suspects list). Some of the more stubborn members will probably still say your mafia for this reason.

2. Silver flips scum. Suspicions against you will flare, and you'll probably be brought to L-2/1 early on in Day 3. This doesn't seal the deal for me. I'm not like Isa who has 100% reasoning as to why you are scum. Throughout the whole RC thing, Silver was definitely on the shiftier end of things, while you looked minorly shifty. Everyone will probably ask you lots of assorted questions. Me and other rational players will probably give you a chance to redeem yourself, but you'll probably be the fallback lynch for D3 if we can't agree on anything.

3. Silver is indie/something else/doesn't get lynched. If we end up lynching someone else, people's claims about you will stick around, but probably die down if that someone else is scum. I have no idea what'd happen if Silver was indie. I'd probably drop the case at that point.

I know I already said this before but aggressive =/= scum. In fact, I played a game on MS with this really aggressive guy and he replaced in on D2 and he was so pro-town that he was killed by the mafia on N2! IF somebody's PLAY STYLE suddenly changes from game to game then that may be suspect but no, aggression is no reason to believe one is anti-town aligned. Please elaborate on "his actions look very scummy" or else it's not true. I can say "dogs live for 400 years" but NOBODY will be convinced at all without any explanation.

So I have to go against my win condition and hope that Silver will flip town if lynched?

THE CASE ON SILVER+THOMAS IS ENTIRELY WRONG. SILVER SHOULD NOT BE LYNCHED. SNIPEREBORN IS INCREDIBLY SUSPECT. JELLSPROUT IS AS WELL.

THIS IS THE KEY. THIS IS THE GODDAMN KEY. THIS IS WHY SNIPEREBORN IS SUSPECT, HE WANTS TO LYNCH SILVER NOW BECAUSE IT'D BE A "WASTE OF TIME" TO CONFIRM TOWN OR SCUM.

What a DISTURBING amount of people have missed is that Silver, if mafia, has to call out EVERY. SINGLE. TARGET. ACCURATELY. UNTIL SHE DIES. That is IMPOSSIBLE. Silver WILL slip up due to this if she is Mafia, because every day, we will ask her to tell her the results from the previous night, and if we discover that she lies - BAM, DEAD.
This is also why the Thomas+Silver pairing is awfully flawed - there is NO NEED to dig a deeper grave for Silver than the one she had yesterday - and by then it was pretty shallow. SHAVEY DAVE was the one who was hanging against the ropes, not Silver.

Jellsprout is super suspect for THIS:
He says that we need a lynch, then UNVOTES A PERSON AT L-2 TO VOTE A PERSON THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANY VOTES PRIOR TO HIS VOTE. It is also based on the incredibly poor idea that Thomas and Silver should run up together to force Silver to claim a role she cannot fake as I've discussed.

PEOPLE, VOTE THOMAS. HE WAS NEVER SCUM BECAUSE OF SILVER FAKECLAIMING - HE IS SCUM BECAUSE OF THIS

Silver I don't think it's that good an idea to give karma to people who support you. It looks a bit suspect...

PEOPLE DON'T VOTE THOMAS!

I'm not sure about Silver yet, but as Isa says her role is easy to confirm on a later day.
In my opinion we should not vote Silver or Thomas and that leaves the possibility of a lynch of one of the inactive. Since Yuggy, Soccer, Kooler and Shavey all haven't posted much and we can't tell whether they are mafia there is a good chance that one of them could be and we could just stab in the dark with Yuggy. (Or anyone else)

We have about 27 hours to lynch someone, but I'm so tired of trying...

Harumbai, I'm not prone to buddying anymore so if that's what you're trying to do then stop it right now.

I'm suspect for... not wanting to waste intel and instead produce some more? That's silly.
Also, "no need to dig a deeper grave... it was pretty shallow". Are you high or something? That just doesn't make sense.

You'[re defense of Silver is stupid. As a townie, I don't know who has what roles. If she's being set up, there's no way I can know whether she's telling the truth, or the guy saying she didn't call his night action.

Also, what does this even mean "It is also based on the incredibly poor idea that Thomas and Silver should run up together to force Silver to claim a role she cannot fake as I've discussed. "?

I also find it interesting that I've been saying this exact thing all day and you are just now taking issue with it. Are you trying to lead a mislynch by attempting to dazzle people just before the deadline?

That's not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to stop you from getting lynched because I have some rather circuitous logic that to me is pretty convincing that your town/not mafia. I have no idea whether you are independant or not, but if you'd rather I helped lynch you then that's fine .

Lynching an inactive probably won't get us anywhere, IMO due to similar problems that are going on right now. No matter which one we'd choose, they wouldn't come on enough to defend themselves, and we'd get near deadline with still no lynch. Then somebody would try and build an uber-quick wagon against one of them solely for being inactive, resulting in arguments like this over lynching for the wrong reasons. We can't just assume every inactive player is scum (I consider Silver, Kooler, Shavey, Yuggy, and Soccerboy to be the inactive ones), for there's only three scum, one's dead, and there's probably a more mature member than any of those five as the head role.

EBWOP


My bad, I was including a sentence about how we have to use every vote because half the player's are inactive and one's dead, but removed it except for that part.

I just want you to know you aren't getting the town-cred you may be trying to get. But you aren't getting scum points either.

Vote Count
- 2.5

Votes:

3 - Thomas (Silver, Isa, Kooler)
2 - Silver (jellsprout, Yaya)
1 - Shavey Dave (Thomas)
1 - Yuggy (Harumbai)

4 - Not Voting (Yuggy, snipereborn, Shavey Dave, soccerboy)

FoS:

5 - Silver (Kooler, Yuggy, jellsprout, snipereborn, Yaya)
3 - Kooler (Yuggy, Shavey Dave, Silver)
2 - Shavey Dave (Yuggy, snipereborn)
2 - Thomas (Kooler, Yaya)
1 - Yuggy (Yaya)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
Deadline for the day phase: January 28, 2012, 11:59PM Interguild Time. 24 hours remaining!

This is exactly what I said earlier.
I'm not sure why Isa finds it so unbelievable. Perhaps you would like to elaborate, Isa? I've been asking you to for about a week since Thomas got to L-1 the second time.

I still am not sure why Thomas is suspicious, he is always aggressive and in previous games it's that aggression that found out lots of mafia members. I can see why the whole roleclaiming business seems slightly suspicious, but IMO he still is town. There is one way to test this theory, and that is lynching Silver. If she flips what she claimed then all this janitored fake claim business can be proved false. If however Silver flips mafia then it could be exactly that. It wouldn't make Thomas instant mafia, but it would make him look very suspicious. If we do lynch Silver and she turns out to be town then we don't have a huge loss anyway, whereas if you lynched Thomas and he flipped town then we lose a very valuable player.

Vote: Silver

I wasn't bringing it up earlier because I want Thomas lynched. Then that wagon dropped speed because people shifted their votes from Thomas to Silver.

Look here. We let Silver off the hook today. Tonight, someone may or may not target Silver - tomorrow, before anyone says ANYTHING, Silver must claim who targeted her during the night. If she says that nobody did, we check around with each other and if nobody claims to have targeted her - all good, Silver lives for another day. If someone says that they targeted Silver during the night, we take her to the gallow. If she then flips town, we lynch the guy who claimed that he targeted her. Same thing if she claims that she was visited during the night - she states by who, and that person either confirms or denies. Again, if someone else targeted her during the night that she doesn't mention, she's lynched.
What is your issue with this? Nobody is forced to target Silver, you do not know the setup - let people do what they want during the night, and Silver will either lead herself to a swift death, or we have a CONFIRMED TOWNIE - I highly doubt Mafia would exchange one of their members for Silver.

The role that she claimed is a suicide to claim if she's scum, and it's incredibly anti-town to vote her today. If she wanted to fake-claim a role (which is a stupid idea - why would you WANT to fakeclaim? Scum wants to keep their options open for as long as possible and if you're forced to claim, it doesn't matter if your partner is on the wagon or not...here at the Interguild, everyone has usually gotten away when they've claimed.), she should have claimed a generic role that's easier to fake. Just a regular Tracker would have been great, as an example, because it's not super-likely to be in the setup and you aren't forced to produce any results of significance, you can just fake "I watched [my partner] XYZ and he visited ABC during the night." and we can't check up on it, unless we lynch XYZ, and even then it's far from fool-proof for town.

(Also I should probably post less during 3AM. =p)

Still scum, but less so. Your general play this day has been reeking like hell.



You know why I changed my vote from Thomas to Silver? Not despite him being at L-2, but because of him being at L-2. He was at L-1 at the end of the day and has done absolutely nothing to try to convince people he is not scum. So easy lynch right? Nope. Everybody who hadn't voted for him yet wasn't going to vote and Soccerboy even removed his vote because he was afraid Thomas was going to get lynched. For some reason people don't want Thomas to get lynched.
Now, I had two options here. Watch as Thomas remained at L-2 and nobody getting lynched, or changing target to someone who people would be willing to vote for.

Snipe, Soccer and Shavey. There are less than 24 hours remaining. No Lynch is very anti-Town. So pick a target and vote already.

I THINK THAT SILVER AND THOMAS ARE IN NO WAY AFFILIATED.

Now that I think about it, I don't think Thomas would be with silver.

That conversation looked VERY real, and I don't think Silver would have the acting and cooperation with Thomas to set up the plan.

When it comes to mafia, I'm pretty sure Silver hates Thomas the most.

All the original

"Silver is Mafia!"
"HA I WAS RIGHT!!"


stuff got on her nerves, and silver would not be willing to set up this long of a plan.


IF THOMAS AND SILVER WERE BOTH MAFIA, THOMAS WOULD HAVE GONE TO THE OTHER SCUM PARTNER.



THIS IS NOT THOMAS TRYING TO CONFUSE US. Silver would never do that.

Vote: Kooler

he had just about as much chance as being mafia in the beginning, and he hasn't posted much.

He had enough time to shout out "THE GAME" in the chatbox, i don't see why he couldn't have said something here.