Welcome, my friends. Welcome.

I am at a loss for words today. I have no strength or will in my body as of now. Here, please read this letter.

"Hello, Hannah's grandpa.

I am Armin, the friend of Hannah who joined her on her quest. I have some bad news. This night, Hannah stayed up to do some exploration of her own. While I was asleep, someone or something must have hit her, because she has a huge flesh wound on her head. I have no medical expertise, so I am unable to help her. I think she is alive, but she might not survive unless I find medical help soon.

On a lesser note, I saw a precious gem in the distance, glowing like a beacon, but it abruptly stopped after a while. I think I heard footsteps afterwards, but I am not sure.

Best of wishes, Armin"

-----

Nebnebben was "Hannah", PROTAGONIST aligned.

As Hannah, you are one brave chick. Your search for treasure has lead you to a lot of adventures, making you skilled at detecting and recognizing dangers.


Once per night, Hannah can roleblock or investigate someone.


Yaya was "Gem Crate", CRATE aligned.

As "Gem Crate", you share a trait with a good detective, both are rare but very valuable.


Once per night, the Gem Crate can investigate someone.

Roster:
1. Guyguyxtreme
2. Jellsprout
3. Harumbai
4. Silver
5. Thomas
6. DeathBunni X
7. Canadianstickdeath
8. Soccerboy13542
9. Jazz
10. Quirvy

Former players:
1. Bmwsu, "Fuel Container", CRATE aligned - Lynched Day 1
2. Yaya, "Gem Crate", CRATE aligned - Killed Night 1
3. Nebnebben, "Hannah", PROTAGONIST aligned - Killed Night 1

With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
Deadline for the day phase: May 27th, 2010, 11:59PM Interguild Time

The day will end without a lynch if a majority is not reached by this time.

Well, with one mafia dead, at least they have less influence on the vote.

Only the second day, and this game is already better than the previous one.

Wow I did not see nebneb being mafia at all.

Oh BTW:

I love it when I'm right.

Sadly, soccerboy, I cannot place you on my list of people who I'm almost sure are mafia as a result of you making arguments based on things that you would know don't hold up if you were mafia, because nebneb's list of possible mafia had 5 people on it.

It's kind of ironic that Yaya was the last town member killed in the last game, and here he's the first one downed by them. This really sucks because he's a detective that got killed before he could successfully investigate anyone, so everything he said was just speculation and not based on any investigating.


I have 2 questions: Is there any role for the independent that he cannot kill 2 nights in a row? I know that last game jell couldn't hide 2 nights in a row or risk being poofed.

And what happens if an independent tries to kill a mafia, and a mafia tries to kill an independent on the same night?

I think that they'd both die, not sure though. Unless one of them had an override power.

FoS: Jazz

Am I the only person who thinks Jazz is very suspicious? I'm tempted to vote for him, but I don't have enough proof. I just feel all of his posts are just there to stop complaining about inactivity.

I can't comment on your first question.

Both die.

Oh, come on! A mafia gets killed by what I would assume be our independent, and no one is posting anything about what they think it means regarding the other members? I was really hoping to see where everyone else would get to, but so far all I've seen is and unrelated FoS at jazz.

Since our detective is dead, I guess I'll try to do a little detective work. I've been looking through nebneb's posts.

At first I thought he was trying to throw us off by looking like he didn't know what he was talking about(5 suspects on his list, FoSing me and Thomas despite that it was obvious that we were playing around at the start of the game), but I actually think he was just trying to post a lot so that we wouldn't suspect that he would be mafia. The way he posted suggests that he wasn't directly influenced by his other fellow mafia.

Throughout day 1 Thomas had been responding to a lot of his posts, most notably telling him why he shouldn't suspect the two of us. Despite this nebneb continued to talk about how he suspects we might be mafia. If Thomas was mafia, I'm pretty confident at some point he would tell nebneb to drop it, not only because it's logic is poorly structured, but because although mafia might want to throw suspicion at eachother to throw the town off if one gets killed (see: Silver FoSing Harumbai), they don't want their own members to turn on them for an extended period of time, and nebneb seemed to basically focus on both me and Thomas the entirety of day 1.

With that in mind, Thomas is most likely NOT mafia.()

The reason that nebneb's list had 5 people in it was because Thomas posted right before him and gave 5 people, not because he was trying to look wrong about the number of mafia.

And what appears to be a severe lack of restraint by his fellow mafia members leads me to believe that all 5 people on that list may not be mafia.

We know that bm isn't mafia. I highly doubt Thomas is. I know that I am not mafia. Even though I initially thought Silver's inactivity was a little suspicious, I reconsider that, as it makes sense that she would be less active with a non-mafia role, as in her non-mafia role she wouldn't be able to have as much fun trying to throw people off.

I'll never be sure about jellsprout, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. So, if I'm right, which I might not be, but if I am! We are looking at these people as potential mafia suspects:

Jazz
Soccerboy
Harumbai
CSD
DBX
Guyguy

I am very suspicious of CSD after he talked about how people shouldn't blindly follow what he says, and then he sparked a mob of people blindly following after him and his vote to lynch bmwsu.

He talked about how it can be scary to post if you're mafia. Well then if you were mafia, you know what would really make you look not scared? Leading a charge against someone who is only mildly suspicious, well before the voting deadline. You may say, "Well, I didn't know everyone was going to follow me like that" but you hosted the last game and you probably know very well that when one person votes, especially someone well respected, that a wave of votes usually follow afterwards. At the very least your decision to vote for bm the way you did is shady.

I realized that I've been messing up my role... sorry!

Why me, Quirv? And how were they killed? What's going on here?!?!?!?

Luckily, nebnebben was killed night 1. He could have been a big threat.

This should say "I cannot place you on my list of people who I'm almost sure are NOT mafia" if that's what you're talking about. I originally suspected that you were not mafia because of an error you made regarding whether or not mafia are chosen based on whether or not they've been mafia before. You may or may not have read that in my really long post.

If you're talking about why your on my list of potential mafia we should focus on, I explained that in the post.

God, Quirvy, you make long posts.

Anyway, I'll throw a
FoS: Jellsprout
In jell's direction. Looking at posts from mafia yesterday, I see that Jell is acting in a mafia mind. It might make no sense, and since he was an independant last time, he does know the pressure of being the underdog. But quoting this



He's trying to stall time. (I'm on my phone so it's hard to do highlighting an stuff on here). And remember, Mafiats are trying to stall time to spark up confusion and disorganization. He also states the obvious (the need to lynch). Of course we need to lynch! It's a hunch for me, anyway.

This is really hard to word, but in summary I'll say he's acting in a mafia mind.

Harumbai needs to post more in general, and Jazz needs to post more speculative posts, as in about who's mafia and who isn't. I was going to pair DBX with Jazz but she just posted...

The long post on day 1 was kind of... too long. If anyone hasn't read it yet, you're not missing much. But the reason why my post today was long was because if I'm going to say that we should narrow our search to 6 people, I'm probably going to need a good explanation. And I know that I'm gonna need to have a very good explanation if I'm going to say that we shouldn't lynch Thomas.

Also your argument is a bit flawed. Jell says at the end of his post, "Furthermore, you need to lynch someone, or else the Mafia will get the initiative." Even if he was stalling time(where'd that come from?) he's saying that we need to lynch someone. And taking longer to lynch doesn't help the mafia. If anything they probably want it to happen as fast as possible so that they reveal as little as possible.

But nonetheless I'm still a little suspicious of him because I'm paranoid that they're smarter than me and he could fool me really easily. So even though he's not on my list, I'm gonna have to keep an eye out just in case.

Quirvy, you're like the Isa of this game.

I've read though a dozen or so mafia games, so that I could get a feel for how one progressed when I decided to host my own without even having played in one before. What happened yesterday ranks up there amoung the dumbest things I've ever seen. Here are some general guidelines that I guess are coming too little too late:

1. Don't lynch somebody without giving them a reasonable chance to respond. Hell, you didn't even give ME a chance to respond. I voted. I went to sleep. I had a busy day. I got home at night. I come online, and the lynch had already been final for about four hours.

2. Never end the day so early. We benefit from discussion. If we've got a whole week left, we should spend it discussing who else might be mafia or what we will do depending on whether or not our lynch target is or isn't mafia. Ending the day early only helps the mafia avoid having to face our accusations.

3. If a bandwagon forms very quickly, that doesn't necessarily mean that the person we're voting for isn't mafia, but it should at least ring some alarm bells that something is possibly wrong. With how little evidence we had against Bmwsu, if he were mafia, you would expect some people to come forward to defend him.

If I had be able to come online while that lynch was happening, I would have unvoted. That lynch happened way too quickly. By voting for him, my goal was not to get him lynched but to try and learn information about the other players. One thing I learned was that they apparently don't listen to me when I tell them not to listen to me. Go figure.


"I am very suspicious of CSD after he talked about how people shouldn't blindly follow what he says, and then he sparked a mob of people blindly following after him and his vote to lynch bmwsu."

You think I wanted to spark that mob? I specifically said that people shouldn't blindly follow me in the hopes that that way I WOULDN'T spark mobs. Apparently it didn't work. You play this game by voting for people, applying pressure, and then seeing the way they and everybody else responds to that. That said, I voted for Bmwsu, I don't think I'm responsible for that mob -- I think the mafia is. For me, the scummiest place to be in a miss-lynch is votes number 3-4 and maybe 2 or 5. The reason for this is the mafia likes to jump on after the town starts going in the wrong direction. So after myself and Thomas (and I can agree with Quirvy that Thomas isn't so likely to be mafia, but I'm far from ruling him out at this time) voted, that was like a traffic light going green for them, and they jumped on, and try and get the momentum going through to a lynch. I don't think that actually being responsible for a miss-lynch is the best move for them, but I guess they figured that since mine was the first vote, it would look bad on me more-so than them, which would be a mistake on their part, if true. If nebnebben turns out to be the only mafia that voted for Bmwsu, then we already deserve to lose.

Quirvy is suspicious of me because, apparently, I have sway. He was suspicious of Isa and Dando last game for the same reasons, and he was wrong on both counts. The roles are randomly assigned, so how much sway somebody may or may not have isn't exactly the most reliable indicator. It's time to find new reasons to be suspicious of people.


So I'm not at all surprised that nebnebben was mafia. When I originally made that list of three names, nebneb was at the top, based on mostly a hunch (the other two were almost pure random, but his was based on vibes I got from reading his posts), but when I saw that he was the third vote, I was planning on targeting him for a lynch today, if I survived the night. But since he's dead, I'm instead going to turn my attention to Jellsprout. Jellsprout was the 5th vote on Bmwsu yesterday. Usually, Jellsprout is a very logical person, but his posts so far (including his vote on Bmwsu) I don't think have been particularly logical. That's why for today I'm going to Vote: Jellsprout. Now let's not all vote for him right away, OK? Give this one a chance to breathe, you promise?

I also feel like Silver has been acting much the same as the way she acted last game. Given how Bmwsu was also acting in a similar manner, I feel Silver might be mafia again. She was vote number 4 on yesterday's lynch, so she's my next best guess on who is mafia. I agree that Jazz's posts so far have been lacking in content. I'd like him to post a little more, especially on who he thinks is suspicious, but I forget when exactly he said he would be back.


I'm not sure what to make of last night's kills. The mafia wouldn't kill themselves, and you'd think that Armin would know why the Gem Crate died if the mafia were responsible. I guess it's possible, from a flavour perspective, that Hannah collected the Gem before she was killed but was too incapacitated to explain to Armin. A less likely theory is that Yaya's death was a serial killer kill while the mafia kill was blocked and nebnebben was taken out by a vigilante (or perhaps he targeted a reflector). Isa's done a reasonable job of not giving too much away from the flavour, I think, but maybe after a few more nights it will become more clear exactly what happened.

We're lucky to be rid of a member of the mafia already. At the same time, we've lost the cop before he could make any detections. It looks like we're out to an early lead, but without the cop, we'll need to play smarter than we did yesterday if we intend to win this game.


"Quirvy, you're like the Isa of this game. "
Personally, I think this game's Isa is myself.

"I'm a wooden box!"
I should use quotes so you don't have to look back and see who said these things, but this post takes long enough to write as it is. The person who said it knows who he is. I have questions. Is this true or a joke? Can anybody counter-claim it? Even if it's true and nobody counter-claims him, he could still have been given that as a fake claim. If it's true, you should still not say what exactly it is that you do.

"But before I go into explaining my reasons, doesn't it seem a little counterproductive to tell people why you think they're mafia."
No. When you accuse somebody of being mafia, you need to back it up with some reasons so that they can know what exactly it is that they need to defend against. Without reasons, your accusation will be brushed-off as baseless and then forgotten. When people defend themselves against your arguments, that's the kind of post that gives us the information we need to make better decisions.

"And what appears to be a severe lack of restraint by his fellow mafia members leads me to believe that all 5 people on that list may not be mafia."
I would place absolutely zero faith in that list signifying anything one way or the other. Odds are that if you pick 5 people at random, at least one of them is mafia. If he were thinking at all he'd try to give that list a reasonable mix of mafia/non-mafia so as to not give us any sort of extra information. I think there's more likely to be 1 mafia on that list than 0 or 2, but like I said, I don't think we can really use that list really help us in any way.

I'm not suspicious of you because you "have sway". I'm suspicious because you should have known that as a prominent player, especially being the one to host the previous game, you making a vote on day 1 is likely to cause a tidal wave of votes from other members who are probably going to be looking to you for insight on what to do, and no I'm not talking about them looking for advice on how to not blindly follow people. Maybe in the games you observed they didn't jump on when someone made a vote to put pressure on someone else, but the people here are likely very different than the people you were observing.

It's also worth mentioning that I didn't even realize how early in the day we were until I actually looked at the deadline. I thought we were at least 3/4 of the way through based on the voting. I suggest that we don't finish voting until we're within the last 2 days, if not the last.

Not when I don't want my accusation to have weight. I didn't intend my list to actually be viewed as, "hey maybe he's onto something. Let's lynch CSD, Jazz and Silver!" Only one of them had been acting suspicious enough to warrant an FoS(Jazz, by his lack of willingness to discuss theories). The main idea behind it was to see if any of them would over-react to it. And I kind of wanted people to be suspicious of me for not stating reasons, but for some reason I didn't have the same effect as Thomas did last time he played. Maybe next time I need to do an FoS since those seem more official.

While I would agree with you if it was someone with a little more experience, but that felt like first game, day 1, with a lack of guidance from his fellow mafia. Someone very new to the game might think that he should throw all of his suspicion towards non-mafia. I mean, he saw me and Thomas bickering and decided to stick with that all the way through to the end of the day(his last post was an FoS to both me and Thommy), despite that Thomas gave a proper explanation for it.(I only said that it was "a swing and miss", that doesn't count as a proper explanation) I'm not saying that you should mark everyone down on that list in permanent marker as town, I'm saying that we should focus on the list of people not on the list more than those on the list. The only person I would see as suspicious on the list right now is Jell.

I'm also gonna throw it out there that I still think soccerboy is town. Everyone else on that list of potentials still strikes me as shady, but you look less shady now, CSD. But like Jell, you're smarter and more experienced at this than me, so I'm never gonna really rule you out.


Also, it's a good thing you pointed out the story, because I had been making an assumption that was partially based on me thinking that the independent killed nebneb, and that the mafia had killed yaya. It doesn't change anything I've already said, but still.

I don't get why an independent would take out yaya, though. If I was an independent, I would try to take out a mafia early, because they are a larger threat to me than the townspeople at that time. Mafia influence voting(3/13 votes) can kill at night, and they're an organized group. But if our independent killed yaya, I'd assume he'd either be killing at random or attacking town right now because there were many more people who would be more likely to be mafia than yaya. So I don't really know what to make of it.


And for the record I don't think that you can really make comparisons between Me and CSD and Isa and Dando, because our roles are going to be different, we could be mafia aligned, and because our methods are different. Do not be surprised if I try something sneaky and it blows up in my face (not like, "you broke the rules, Quirvy!", more like "Why would you try something as stupid as that?") because I'm new to playing mafia and I'm also the staff member who's always doing stuff that gets me into trouble.

@Quirvy @CSD

I expected Bmwsu to be crate but I voted for him because he didn't want to post and I felt he was going to do what he did last game which I stated on day1.

When I said this I meant that I was a crate. Like my alignment.

I'm not really suspicious of Jellsprout. I think nebnebben put a list of 5 non-mafia. Perhaps Jellsprout is independent?


FOS: canadianstickdeath
What Quirvy said.

FOS: Harumbai
Post something.

Wow. It's been so very quick... already a detective and a mafia killed? Wow.

(Sorry I don't have much to say these days. I'm lacking sleep, also school + sport = ultra tiredness. Dammit, where has my contribution gone?)

Okay, I don't have as much time to peruse through everyone's posts, just reading this page took quite a while and I skimmed a few long posts... All I can say about my inactivity is that the last day ended before I had a time to check up on it much and I've only just checked the new day today.

Lets see,
Guyguys first post today could be suspicious as seen as distancing himself from the mafia by phrasing it as a good thing that one is dead (Which it is, but just a bit of a waste of a post). His second post does little better by complaining abut jazz's activity and having "not enough proof" which again is a bit of a inactivity filler in itself.

Deathbunni has said a lot over this time, but little of importance. I'm not sure whether to draw anything from that other than a lot of free time and little to say.

Thomas: I can easily see your argument as being true Quirvy, but there is also a nagging feeling that it is an amazingly well played game of thomas'. For now though, he remains innocent... enough.

Quirvy's logic is transparent enough for him to be the only person I would fully trust in this game so far.

Jellsprout I agree is suspicious for his lack of intelligent thought that I can see. His posts individually are all innocuous though unfortunately.

CSD's logic not quite as transparent as Quirvy. Also interesting to note that CSD was pretty sure of Nebneb being Mafia as he just revealed and voila, today no nebneb, either a lucky killing by a random or possibly CSD if he was an independant would stand a better chance of winning once the threat of mafia knowing he not one of them is gone. By killing an assumed mafia then gives a better chance of later blending in with town and then slowly winning.

I think Silver isn't mafia just from the fewer posts and the style not as much as like last time.

Soccer could be innocent, which I guess is more likely, but the "Wouldn't choose mafioso again" comment does seem like a bad cover for a mafia player. You can easily read too much into it though, there can only be a few players with ulterior motives.



Then Nebnebs last post
"Here is my list of possible Mafia:
-Jellsprout
-Quirvy
-Bwmsu
-Silver
- Thomas
These are all the people who I think have been acting strangely. Though its still probable that none of the above are Mafia."

We have sort of confirmed that 3/4 of these people aren't mafia so maybe this list was constructed purposely not to be incriminating using his knowledge of other mafia. The last sentence sort of indicates that is a possibility, but does not rule out any independants.


Night Night, Don't let the mafia kill you.

CSD, I am not playing as logically as last time? Last time I spend the first day making a joke accusation at Isa, FoS'ing myself and mocking FoS's in general because of the unimportance of them. I only made two serious posts, telling how we shouldn't automatically trust Dando just because she is the most innocent person on the actual Interguild. I didn't really get into serious posts until the second day, where I know enough through observations and the kills who to suspect.
It is also the end of the school year, and mentally I am starting to get drained, so my posts probably have less energy put into them than the previous time.

About my vote on Bmwsu, I play to have fun. Look at what happened previous time at the end of the game. Nobody was posting any theories, making any votes or even attempting to start any type of activity. Such a game is not fun. Bmwsu had made only one post yesterday, despite having been spotted online several times during that day. It is clear that he wants to prefers to spend all of his free time on Minecraft. While I won't judge him for that, it does make the game more boring for the others.
I have said the same during the first day previous game. I'd rather lynch inactive people this early in the game than active people I find suspicious, for the simple reason that lynching those active people makes the game less fun.

If that makes suspicious, then so be it.

I do have to say, I find it a bit odd that you specifically target me and Silver here, as well as posting that you were planning on lynching Nebnebben today, because we just happened to be the third, fourth and fifth person to vote. Yet you don't even mention Thomas, who was the second person to vote for Bmwsu, nor do you mention DBX or Soccerboy, who both voted within 12 hours after your vote. I don't know about any of the others, but I voted once I came online and saw the voting had started. People are very quick to follow the bandwagon on this site, so I knew that Bmwsu was already practically dead.
So tell me, if I came online a few hours later and couldn't vote until after DBX, would that have made me any less suspicious?

Looking at the last day, Neb was trying to lynch him, making him look fairly innocent today.

Jazz, I'm still waiting.

Jazz won't return until 20th May. That's two days from now. Don't expect him to reply before then.

Of everything you said, this has the most glaring holes in it.

CSD didn't say he was pretty sure that nebneb was mafia, he said that he was not surprised he was mafia. He said that he put nebneb on his list because he got "vibes" from his post. That's hardly being pretty sure. He voted for bmwsu, and he probably didn't actually think he was mafia, he just wanted to put pressure onto him to force him to open up to us. He didn't even do an FoS of nebneb.

Additionally, he pointed out that it's unlikely that the independent killed nebneb based on Isa's description, and that it was more likely a mafia backfire. Our independent appears to have killed yaya. So even if he was our independent, you'd be fingering him for the wrong crime(unless there's something I don't know)

Nothing CSD said prior to nebneb's death suggests that he had any actual suspicions towards nebneb. That list was supposedly completely random. CSD might be pretending to have suspected him to make him look like he isn't mafia, and to make him seem like he's going to be more correct in his assumptions than the rest of us, but I very much doubt he's independent.

^^I openly agree with these ideas^^

But I still think our main focus should be finding out who the mafia is.

I reckon we should try and look at 'Who would benefit from Yaya's death?'

If we're assuming the independent did it, then I disagree for various reasons. I'm more interested in why nebneb was the one performing the kill, and who the mafia was trying to kill. Independents don't want to draw attention to themselves, so they might not even have benefited from Yaya's death. Additionally the mafia would love it if we diverted our attention from them to the independent, because they're no longer under heat, the independent is as much a threat to them as (s)he is us, and they don't know who (s)he is and cannot find out who (s)he is because they lost their detective.

nebneb had a detective role, and that's something that is still very useful even though they're mafia. If I were the leader of the mafia I'd want him to use it instead of him taking the night kill, and would have given the kill to either myself of the other person. I think that we might not have me, CSD or jell in the mafia(but I'm not extremely confident about this), because I don't think any of us would have let that happen, along with the many other mistakes that nebneb made, like his continued assault on me and Thomas.

So with that in mind my personal list goes down to:

Soccerboy
Jazz
Harumbai
DBX
Guyguy

I'm not saying everyone else is eliminated in my mind, I'm saying I'm focusing more on these 5 people right now. If someone says something compelling enough to put someone else on here I'll go for it.