No wait that post made no sense; I forgot he couldn't be lynched, lol. So ignore my above post. But still, I don't think he'll be a problem for now.

@Shos
You're not a power role, so there's no waste. Moreover, I didn't say lynch you. You said that was impossible. Were you lying? Because I said try to lynch you, and if that fails, try again tomorrow. If that fails,then that's role confirmed.

@Qurivy
No, shos probably doesn't have other powers, if he's telling the truth. The fact that he has a self confirming role is his power.
As for the "assumptions" I made, notice how I put conditionals on everything?

The key part being "if possible". Obviously, if there is no such ability, then what harm is there in saying it?
Also, what do you care about assuming there is a vig? Neither town nor mafia know whether or not there's a vig, except the vig, if it exists. So why would you even point that out?


Ninja'd
@Yaya
Clearly. The point is, we're unlikely to find such evidence. I didn't mean kill shos right now, if that's even possible. I assumed we can't lynch him today (though I'm waiting for the next vote count to see if that's true), so I meant night-kill(nk) him, if possible. Again, we can't lynch him, so there's nothing wrong with puting pressure on a "confirmed" townie.

Ops, didn't see your other one. But it still remains the same. If we have a vig, shos is a good target. If we don't, then he won't die, and we can just test again tomorrow. Easy enough. Plus, shos is clearly using bad logic, so we might as well kick him. Anyone who knows what vigs are knows that an ok shot is much prefered to an unknown shot. See my "doctor, cop, or anything else" argument. Why take a chance on killing a power role with your shot when you can make the town better?
From a meta perspective, I'd be sad to see shos die N-1 two games in a row, but from an in-game perspective, it's the best thing for the town. Now, I mostly have experience playing a different game, Witch Hunt, but it's very similar to mafia. The strategy I outlined is standard practice for Apothcaries in wh, which are like one-shot vigs in mafia. I've yet to see a good reason against it, because there is no good reason. You can say bad reasons with all the passion you want, it does change the fact that it's a dumb idea to target anyone else.

*doesn't. And *apothecary.

Sorry for being a noob, but what does a vigilante do?
Also, this'll be my last post for a few days...

Lol yeah, that is a pretty good point. But on technicality, you didn't say put a townie having a kill power as a conditional, only shos telling the truth about his role. But nonetheless, your post has helped me confirm what I was starting to think in my last post; we're likely better off without shos than with him. While he is basically a confirmed townie, and does have opinions which he can share, he does count for an extra vote that we need to come up with to get a lynch, which will make it harder to lynch mafia. So, yeah, I'm going to have to side with sniper here.

You'll have to excuse me if you think I was a little slow to come to that conclusion, this is, after all, only my second game of mafia, so it's not like I've ever seen good or bad reasons against killing someone like shos, before.

And, Jazz, a vigilante is a townie with the ability to perform night kills.

Anyways, it's nice that you and I agree that shos should go if possible, but I think that we should try to get back to hunting for mafia.

The only two people I've noticed acting weird so far has been Thomas for his aggressiveness and love for giving reads without saying anything about why he's come to such conclusions (but he always acts weird in mafia games), and rocket guy2 for adding a second vote on Thomas in response to Thomas voting for him, really early in the game. Past that, I was thinking that shos was also acting a bit strange, but the shos=mafia angle appears to have reached a dead end.

@Quirvy. Ok, firstly rocketguy might just be acting wierdly because it's is first time? I don't know. Also about Thomas, well I haven't seen him acting any differently to what he usually does. What I really need to clean up my position with shos. Unvote: shos. Now that that's done I think I'll wait a little before a jump to conclusions. I was pretty certain about shos so there's no point in jumping out there and getting it wrong for the second time. For now my vote stays unplaced.

Well Rocket Guy has done frankly nothing, other than adding a second vote on Thomas, and unless he becomes more active he is another vote which will go to waste. Also Shavey, I don't think it being your first time explains his lack of activity, although it could give reasons for his vote. I still think the vote could be an OMGUS vote because Thomas voted for him. Anyway here is his sole contribution to the game so far:

About Thomas, I think he could be scum this time.  It's not a huge suspicion, but I would swear he said he would try to be less aggressive this game, and so far he isn't. He could be not wanting to change his play style because he is scum, and wants to seem no different to normal. Despite this he doesn't seem particularly anti-town so I'm not sure.

About Quirvy, well TBH some of his logic seems slightly off and he has been very defensive at times. His play style is slightly different from last game he was in, possibly because he is scum. Although he was being 'sarcastic' on the prime example, I still think he has overeacted quite a few times.

FoS: Rocket Guy
FoS: Thomas
Unvote
Vote: Quirvy

For me he is the scummiest player right now, with his uber defensiveness and different play style in a bad way.

@Yuggy that was obviously an OMGUS vote. Again it is his first time so he dosen't know about OMGUS votes but I'm not going to sit here and defend him. He has done next to nothing. FoS: rocketguy. I'll give him a day or so but I do not want him here. Also can you expand on why your voting Quirvy?

I doubt rocketguy will ever contribute anything worthwhile...

I'm not gonna check but I think I said something along the lines of "not sure about Yaya" so I'd call that null so no, I did not straight up call you scum.

Well more like he's actively lurking. Do you see something pro-town with that?

Yaya you look even worse now that you're defending soccerboy13542 and putting words into my mouth.

You know I haven't been lynched on IG since Isa's mafia game last year? I've only been lynched twice on IG so you don't have to make it sound like I get lynched in every game I join when some people like Jazz do.

So let's see how "unvotable" shos is...
Unvote, Vote: shos

thomas, he was talking to me~

I'm very surprised that so many people test voting me; the mod has officially posted, removing all votes on me effective immidiately AND retroactively. is it really so hard to believe?

anyway, I really don't understand how it is critical for you to 'remove' me so quickly, even at the cost of wasting a vig shot.
let's ask it this way, suppose I was just a person who cannot vote, would you waste a lynch on me?

Vote Count 1.5
Thomas (1) - rocket guy2
Yuggy (1) - Harumbai
Quirvy (1) - Yuggy

Not voting (9) - soccerboy13542, Yaya, Shos, Shavey Dave, Jellsprout, Jazz, Snipereborn, Quirvy, Thomas

With 12 alive, it's 7 to achieve a lynch.
Deadline is at June 14, 06:00 Interguild Standard Time.

Shos is dead weight. He still counts to the number of needed votes, but he apparently can't vote himself. So effectively it would take an extra vote to lynch anyone at the gain of nothing. If he were dead now, we would only need 6 votes for a lynch while having the same amount of voters.
Furthermore, Lynchproof isn't necessarily a Town role. It is just as likely a scum role. Shos has been acting pretty scummy so far, so I would definitely say this is possible. So if anyone can make a NK, I suggest targeting Shos. Worst case, we lose some dead weight. Best case, we kill scum.

Vote: Rocket guy
We need to hear more from you.

you know what, if you guys are so insistent on killing me, fine; but not yet. if we have any kind of lynch coming up, and we are one vote away from a forced NoLynch, then we'll discuss. there really is no benefit in killing me NOW.

oh mesorries you were talking about a NK. well we'll see about that later.

Prod sent to rocket guy2. If he does not reply within 24 hours, he'll be replaced.

If he does post but just saying 'sorry didn't post.' I'm voting him.

Yaya, what I want to know is why you were defending soccer? Even if you don't agree with the accusations let him defend himself, as then there is more chance of a scum slip happening, if he is scum... Give me a good reason not to put my vote back on you.

FoS: Yaya

Hmm... Yaya does seem quite suspicious. I'll leave him for now. I'm probably going to end up voting rocketguy anyway.

Yeah, Thomas. That was directed at Shos, not you. I kinda thought we were over this hump, but I'll try my best to let you see things my way, Yuggy.

The main reason you shouldn't vote for me is that I'm town, but I guess I'll have to go deeper than that. I didn't defend him because I'm some champion of justice; like I said before, the more guilty he looked, the more bad I looked. So obviously I was going to try to clear my name. This reasoning may not exactly be applicable to you since it was originally directed at Shos, but that was my main reasoning.

I do agree that it's better to let people defend themselves in hope of scumslipping, that was just an isolated occurence where I thought defending someone else was the best way to defend me. And I haven't continually defended him keep in mind; I stopped defending him after I thought suspicions on me were dropped.  I attempted to defend people a lot more crazily in the 1st game, and I was town in that game too.

Can I request that whoever -1ed my big post on the last explain to me why they disagree with it? Are you saying "No, I'm gonna keep on using abbreviations you don't understand", or are you saying "No, it's way too early to think that Thomas may be behaving differently if he was the opposite of his alliance", or are you unhappy with me for complaining about the lack of contribution coming from jazz and rocket guy2, or are you unhappy with my assessment of what shos' role means, or are you unhappy that I stated that my opinion on the matter of us requiring 7 votes despite only have 11 possible voters was that it was stupid?

I generally think that karma rating in mafia should be discouraged, outside of unusual circumstances, like when Jazz taunted people after he intentionally got himself killed, when Thomas made that ill-advised post to Silver, and when Thomas made that humorous picture explaining that Yuggy and Sprout were scum. But I don't really see anything unusual or obvious in my post, and even though you're still allowed to karma rate posts here, it would be nice if you could perhaps elaborate on why you karma rated my post since it kind of covered a variety of subjects, and there's no one obvious reason why someone would -1 it. Karma is meant to give feedback on people's posts, but right now yours only serves to lower my karma.

That may be too long that it seems like an overreaction, but is it too much to ask that whoever that was state their opinion instead of hiding behind anonymous karma rates?


Anyways, Yuggy seems to think that I'm acting "uber-defensive" and I really don't understand exactly where he's getting that from since up until now no one has really gone after me, but I can at least explain the change of me acting differently in general to there being about a full year between my only mafia game and now.

Additionally, I don't want to act the same as last time; I was too paranoid and made several bad decisions (most notably, not going for a jellsprout lynch on the final day, but instead trying to figure out who his accomplice was, which I couldn't figure out). I also spent a lot of time analyzing everyone's posts and trying to spot things, and that led me to believe that Thomas was an independent really early on in the game, as well as several other things that were not true (I thought nebneb's list held more relevance than it did), so I also haven't really inspected everyone's posts yet due to a lack of desire. Nothing that I tried in the last game worked; the only thing I was right about was jellsprout being scum, and that was mostly because of CSD , and not my own independent thinking. So I ask you, Yuggy: Why should I act the same, when acting that way led me to failure?

That said, I still might consider going back a few pages and reading posts to look for possible clues, since that wasn't directly related to my failure last time. I just need to make sure I don't over-analyze anything.

In case anyone missed it, shos looks indeed unvotable for today.


Can you elaborate? Maybe I need to reread stuff, but yaya still feels null to me.

I'm a bit confused by the whole thing. Correct this if it is wrong, but the chain of events looks like:
**Note: when I say "active pressure", I mean verbally reasoning against while voting. Passive pressure is just voting, or keeping a vote on.
1. Shos and I put active pressure on yaya for not voting (early on, not really any better reasons on the table)
2. Soccerboy defends Yaya (not entirely seriously, perhaps)
3. Shos actively pressures yaya, suggesting a link between SB and Yaya. I pressure yaya passively.
4. Yaya defends himself and soccer against shos.
5. I put some active pressure on yaya for defending Soccer.
6. Yaya offers an explanation of his defense of Soccer.
7. The conversation dies.
8. Shos stuff.
9. Yuggy questions yaya's defense of Soccer, using an FoS. Shavey questions yaya, no vote or FoS.
10. Yaya explains his behavior, basically restating what he already said and agreeing with some criticism.

Yaya, what I really want to know about is that quote seems sketchy to me. Taken from this post. I believe that your reference to "common sense defense" is you defending soccer to defend yourself, correct? No problem with that. It's the other part which seems a little weird. If I thought that someone at L-1 wasn't scum, I'd defend them. Could you just talk about that point a bit?

@sniper my reasoning is about the soccer - defence. It's only minor, I guess so that's why I haven't voted him. I ment to do this though:

FoS: Yaya

Wow Yaya's play/defense is so bad... it's like WIFOM or something.

Vote: Yaya

I don't know why he's talking like he has an alliance with soccerboy13542 but it's not like mafia don't buddy each other because people wouldn't expect that.