Yaya: My gut feeling is that you are scum.

This quote specifically rubs me weird. That doesn't seem to be something new town would say, especially something someone who doesn't have a lot of experience playing mafia. It's the specificity of it I think. In addition to that, my general scummy reads on hb come in to play here too. I'm not voting yet because I don't want a quickhammer but that's my gut feeling

I'd like to think I elaborated on that post in my following post. As I said in that post, I was expressing my frustration at your desire to see the Atvelonis case move along, but not do any of the questioning yourself. I was trying to highlight that those who were already voting for him were probably not the ones who had many questions to ask of him at that time.

As for me still finding you suspicious, yeah I still do find you suspicious, and of course you think it's weird since you're the target of my suspicions. Soccerboy's investigation of you coming back town has pretty much been the only thing that has made you look town the entire game. It's not like your behaviors improved once he investigated you, the only difference is whenever you did something scummy, a voice in the back of my mind said "but Soccerboy's investigation came back as town". Although it would make the game somewhat unbalanced, you being a godfather is still a possibility.

But I do have a decent amount of experience playing mafia games, as far as the average Interguild member goes. I've played in CSD's game, Isa's game, Flashmarsh's game, Sefro's game, Isa's other game, replaced Silver in Shos' Pokemon game, and now replaced HB in this one. There might be others that I didn't see/remember in my cursory search of the forums. I'm pretty sure every game I've played in, whether I was town, mafia, or independent, the scum had a secret board that was made public at the end of the game (not 100% positive-- at least most of the games I've played in had this). I wrote that sentence mainly when I was trying to get it through Mymop's head that I 1.) can't read minds (specifically that of HB's prior to replacing her) and 2.) had as much information as every other townie.

At this time, I'd prefer to go for a Mymop lynch over a Kro one, but I'm open to Kro.

You want to lynch the confirmed townie over someone who if you are town, is scum...
You're scum.

Not even entertaining the possibility that Mymop is a godfather seems like a poor idea. He's only confirmed so far as the cop got back a town read on him, which is generally a characteristic of the godfather role. The rest of his performance throughout the game has been scummy. Even Soccerboy was surprised to get back a town result for him. And you seem to be glossing over the fact that you're not a confirmed townie either.

Strategically Kro would be a better person to lynch over Mymop, since as you've clearly demonstrated, people are likely to believe his "confirmed townie" status. I just personally think Mymop is more suspicious.

The directness of your post is just making me role my eyes. Being blunt about something doesn't make it true-- I am a townie, who happens to think a "confirmed townie" is suspicious. I'd prefer a Mymop lynch, but if the evidence seems fitting I am more than willing to vote for Kro. We got like two weeks to figure it out.

Your explanation of this does not convince me. Your explanation of your post is apparently that you wanted me to be more active in questioning, but the original post did not send that message at all:  


This part very strongly implies that you wanted me to vote, particularly the part I've put in bold.

This part is obviously encouraging me to take action. On its own it would seem to be more in line with your later explanations of the post. However, the previous two sentences made it clear that the action you wanted was a vote, not more questions.

Also, you recently claimed that "I was trying to highlight that those who were already voting for him were probably not the ones who had many questions to ask of him at that time." However, this is not the case, because Soccer and you yourself continued to question atvelonis after you'd voted for him. I don't think this is just a result of forgetfulness because it happened pretty recently.


I don't think it's odd just because you suspect me, it's because I don't think your reasons for suspecting me are solid.


Why would it? I haven't deliberately done things with the goal of harming the town. Sure, I have screwed up, but it has never been intentional. What you call my "scummy actions" have just been mistakes.

Take my role claim, for instance—I think this is the main thing you're referring to. I only realized the impact of what I'd done after Jorster and Soccer explained it to me. Prior to that, nobody had told me why it would be beneficial not to reveal my role. In fact, until it was explained to me I thought revealing my role would be beneficial, since atvelonis, Soccer, Isa, and Jorster had all role claimed, and I interpreted atvelonis' expression of doubt about my role as a question.

Also, if I were scum, role claiming would not help because I'd already have known my role.


Is it not also generally characteristic of an inexperienced townie who has been investigated?  

Considering there are 4 of us left, a mislynch here means a loss, so it makes sense to play the odds. Soccerboy (confirmed cop) got a town read on mymop, so the only likely way mymop can be scum is if mymop is godfather, which seems unlikely for balance reasons. Special roles are normally given in a 50/50 split as pointed out by atvelonis, and having both a rolecop and a godfather on the same team would be pretty OP for mafia. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong to consider the possibility that mymop could be godfather, but at this point we literally can't know definitely whether he is, so it's far safer to go with the more likely assumption that mymop is town. Also, the posts Yaya has pointed out for mymop being scum seem to me more like noob play than anything suspicious. It seems really fishy to me that Yaya is trying to build an argument for lynching mymop. Lynching mymop seems like the worst possible option, as we can say based off of roles and him being investigated as town that he is most likely not scum.

I also got the same interpretation of Yaya's post as mymop initially: it felt like Yaya was trying to pressure us to lynch atvelonis early for little reason. However, Yaya clarified himself here, and after atvelonis turned out to VT, I'm willing to be more open-minded to his explanation.

Yeah, the fact that in a mislynch or lose scenario yaya is pushing for a lynch of someone who is most likely to be town bothers me. Running on pure odds, lynching mymop has the lowest chance of success.  

@Mymop I've got nothing more to say in regards to my D3 post you linked. I'm sorry you're not convinced-- probably the fact that the post was primarily directed at you is part of that. I can only reiterate what my intentions were with that post in so many ways.

I get what yall are saying. To some extent I'm probably letting my thoughts on Mymop's overall performance cloud my thoughts on his alignment. I'll wait and see if he does anything scummy today that also can't be interpreted as being an inexperienced townie before I consider him a worthwhile scum candidate

Today, as in this game day, not this 24 hour period

Krotomo, why are you not pushing for a yaya lynch? That's odd to me because seeing as how you've said you are fairly certain I'm town, and mymop is confirmed town, yaya is scum.  

Sorry, I guess I failed to make myself clear. Mymop is very likely town, Jorster is probably town, and Yaya is the most likely to be scum. Yaya is the best person to lynch right now IMO.

VOTECOUNT OF THE DAY

With 4 alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch.
Day ends in: April 17th, 6.00 p.m. INTERGUILD TIME.

NOT VOTING:
Krotomo, Mymop, Jorster, Yaya.

Nobody is due prods.
  

Just wondering, what roles are there that are similar to what Yaya has claimed as his role?  

I think soccer listed them, paranoid gun owner and bomb were two of them. Kro and yaya, why is the other scummier than you? Prove your innocence so we can figure out how to get a town win please

I can't prove my innocence, and you know that. I've detailed my entirely-passive-outside-of-voting role to the best of my abilities, and have tried to clear up any misunderstandings caused by previous posts of mine.

Even if Kro was a miller as he says he is, without a cop there's no way he can prove his innocence either, short of getting lynched.

Likely you're banking on me or Kro having some sort of scumslip during this innocence-proving that allows for a better case against one of us.

Isa's roleclaim and Kro's hammering of Rocketguy brought a lot of attention to him during the early parts of the game, but since then he has essentially flew under the radar. He hasn't been as blatant of a fencesitter as Atvelonis, so he's managed to avoid any serious accusations of it. It was weird during D3 how he generally pushed for and supported lynching Atvelonis, but never actually voted for him. I know Atvelonis was at L-1 for much of the day, so I don't blame him for not voting then, but I am quite surprised that Kro wasn't the one who ended up hammering. Going back through D3, as far as I can tell, Kro didn't actually cast a single vote that game day. He threw a FoS at HB shortly before I replaced her, but iirc this was already after most of you agreed that FoSes are pretty useless. I admit it's not a ton to go off of, but to me it looks like Kro has been trying to move the game towards a scum victory while keeping his hands as clean as possible during the day portions of the game to avoid another RG-esque situation that draws a ton of attention to him. Even in this game day he's been hesitant to cast the first vote on me despite thinking I am scum.

Vote: Krotomo

I know I haven't been in the game as long as everyone else, but I've tried my best to be an active and pro-town player in the time that I have been playing. I'll admit sometimes I've gotten a bit impatient/overzealous and have let my personal opinions cloud my judgement. I guess in mafia games in general, I just don't like sitting on my hands. Hopefully yall can see past my previous mistakes. and together we can get a town victory.

As Yaya said, there's nothing we can "prove" that we don't already know. However, it's clear that Yaya hasn't made much of a case for his innocence.

Yaya's attempt to push a mymop lynch was scummy. Mymop came up as town during soccer's investigation, which means he is probably town, as him being godfather is unlikely. Despite this, Yaya has tried to sell this idea that mymop may be godfather. It's not like this is some idea that Yaya came up with recently, either. Yaya first presented this hypothetical during Day 3, and soccerboy quickly explained why it was improbable. However, soccerboy is unfortunately out of the game, so perhaps Yaya thought he'd try his luck again.

I get the impression that Yaya is scum, and has targeted mymop because of mymop's inexperience. Mymop has made some noob decisions, such as his roleclaim. Yaya could have seen this poor play as an opportunity to pressure mymop, thinking mymop would do a bad job of defending himself, which would then facilitate further suspicion. The contrary, that Yaya is town and thought mymop was scum, doesn't make sense: It's a terrible decision for us to lynch mymop, as there is a very low probability he is scum. Mymop is a new player, so it's expected he might make some mistakes. And Yaya, a more experienced player, should be able to recognize these facts fairly easily.

Yaya's role claim is a bit dubious as well. As far as I can tell, Yaya's role has been the only non-Normal one so far, and is even an alteration of the roles (Paranoid Gun Owner & Bomb) that it is related to. Considering the number of new players in this game, what are the odds that shos would deviate from Normal guidelines, and for Yaya's role alone? I think it's unlikely, but I want to hear everyone else's thoughts as well, because I'm not entirely sure.

Still, Yaya is the most scummy by far.

Vote: Yaya

As for my own play, I will admit that I've felt uncertain and indecisive at times. While I've made every effort to contribute good reads and analysis, I've sometimes struggled to find things to say. Me not hammering atvelonis, however, was not due to my indecision. That honestly just came down to mymop getting up before me: I woke up on the last day, expecting to have to hammer, but checked my computer and saw that mymop had already done it.

Also Yaya, while it is true that I didn't vote for you until now despite you being the most scummy, neither did you when you supported a mymop lynch, and neither did Jorster when he outright called you scum. Are all three of us scum?

Lastly, I feel like Jorster hasn't been pressured enough. While I think he is likely town, and with what I believe to be good reason, he's not confirmed like mymop is. Jorster, what can you say to verify for us that you are town?

Other than the explanation for the no night kill and such I also cannot prove my innocence. I didn't vote for anyone because no one else was voting, and I didnt want mymop to jump on my wagon and then the scum member to be able to quickhammer and win the game. I was looking over Soccer's post with all the quotes, and noticed that the only time HB ever really interacted with yimmy is when it involved readlists, which is when you're essentially forced to interact with someone, which strikes me as odd.

guys the free rider 2 website is gone

the amount of games in our catalog that still work is plummeting daily

Yimmy, I think you posted in the wrong topic. That is sad though. I don't think there's anything we could do about it, unless someone like DroidFreak shows up and remakes the game.

----------

Yaya's argument against Kro seems to mostly be about Kro's indecisiveness, which I don't think is a strong argument, as I've explained in previous posts. The last paragraph of his post doesn't seem to be saying anything more than "Hey, I'm town, I want the town to win", which doesn't prove anything in his favor.

Kro's observation about Yaya's role might be significant, although it doesn't necessarily indicate that Yaya is scum.


So maybe HB was trying to keep her distance from Yimmy. Not definitively incriminating, but it could be significant.

Overall I think Yaya is looking a bit scummier than Kro. But there's no reason to be hasty in lynching, so I won't vote just yet.  

VOTECOUNT OF THE DAY

With 4 alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch.
Day ends in: April 17th, 6.00 p.m. INTERGUILD TIME.

Krotomo (1) - Yaya.
Yaya (1) - Krotomo.

NOT VOTING:
Mymop, Jorster.

Nobody is due prods.
  

I assumed this was the case; getting someone to L-1 is a lot more dangerous than it was before. We definitely shouldn't get anyone to L-1 unless we've all agreed that they should be lynched.


This is true. They could have been trying to keep themselves from being associated with each other.


Also Jorster, what is your current opinion on Yaya's role?

My opinion on yaya's role is very neutral. It might be a real role, or it might be a fake role or mafia role adapted. I won't know until the end of the game to be quite honest. I really do think it's yaya. I don't really read you as scum, and if its not you its him.

That seems like some circular thinking. An investigation of Mymop came back as town, which means he's probably not the godfather, which often has investigate immunity, because an investigation of Mymop came back as town?

I brought it up again because we did not manage to lynch scum on D3, so it is still a relevant (albeit unpopular) possibility. I would've brought it up today regardless of Soccerboy being alive or not

I don't particularly want a Mymop lynch anymore. I was probably aping for a lynch of him too hard. Some of his probable nooby townishness overlapped with scum behavior

I guess when you word it like that, Jorster looks the worst. Jorster was far more direct than the both of us *shrug*

My interpretation of what he mant is that since Soccer's investigation found that I'm town, the two possibilities are that I'm town or that I'm the godfather, but that the latter is unlikely, so it's strange that you've pushed for the less likely option.  

vote: yaya