I'm not sure how to respond to mymop's post, it's certainly one of the strangest things anyone has ever said about me. I want to say I'm flattered, but at the same time he seems to be using his perception of me as a reason for suspicion. I don't just have the innate ability to be good at something I've never done before. But I also don't want to make too many excuses, because I could have and should have done more research about the game beforehand.

As for Yimmy, I'm not too bothered by his concise way of writing arguments. I actually find it helpful that he goes straight to stating his main points and ignores a lot of fluff (something I should learn to do more), but that's just me.

no i said they were common. super is an overstatement

no. the thing limiting the cops immediate power is the fact that the mafia can shoot them. i'm not in the mood to get into theorycrafting but from my time on mafiascum (which shos was an active member of for a couple years so making assumptions based on their meta is reasonable) i can confidently say that your assumption is far from the truth

since millers arent that common the risk isn't that high. even then, you can't say with certainty that shos didn't put in two millers

the risk of there not being a cop isn't big enough that i'd say unwise, and judging by your behavior the reward is pretty high.

the suspicion would fall more heavily on the person who claimed second.

i don't think millers are common, thus my thoughts are between the odds of there being a miller and the odds of Isa fake-claiming a miller. the odds of a miller are a bit higher, but not enough to outweigh kro's behaviour

yeah i fail to see how this affects the legitimacy of his claim

didn't you just say "Furthermore, we need to look at what possible gains Isa would have gotten if scum as to claiming Miller. If he were scum, he could have coasted along incredibly easily."???

Posting first is not a guarantee of legitimacy.

If Isa was scum claiming to be miller, then after making his first post, there would be two possibilities:
1. Someone would dispute it, and claim to be the actual miller. Sure, Isa posted first, but there would be no way to tell whether it was him or the other person who was lying. This, I think, would be a great strategy as a scum player. It would put you under the spotlight, but nobody expects the scum to put themselves under such scrutiny and especially not so early on in the game, so it could actually deflect suspicion onto the actual miller.
2. This is what actually happened: nobody disputed it. Once again, there's no way to tell for sure if Isa told the truth. Sure, claiming miller on the first post is the ideal move for a miller, but obviously an experienced player like Isa would know this, so if Isa is scum then this is a great way to pretend to be town.

Note that out of these two possibilities, the result is the same: nobody can know whether or not Isa is actually the miller. Therefore, as a scum player claiming to be miller, it would make no difference whether or not there was actually a real miller in the game. The more I think about this, the more I think that Isa was scum.

Also, on page 3, I noticed that Soccer said this:

Practically predicted this whole predicament. Kro's lynch before RG had a chance to explain himself would be a great move for a scum player for obvious reasons. Based on how much Soccer has been defending Kro I think a Kro-Soccer mafia team is possible. If that's not the case then the people who voted for RG would be most suspicious (aych bee, Darvince, atvelonis, Jorster, and, of course, Kro). It could be claimed that Soccer is obviously not scum because he didn't vote for RG, but you could just as easily say that he didn't vote simply to avoid being nailed in this exact situation. However, Soccer doesn't seem to have ever been a leading figure against RG; the first two votes cast against RG were by HB and Jorster.

Overall, I think Kro is most likely scum, and Soccer, HB, and Jorster are the most likely candidates for being his partner in crime.  

On second thought, I'd like to rephrase that. Kro's lynch before RG had a chance to explain himself would be a good, even if not ideal, move for a scum player. While it has drawn considerable suspicion on Kro, the deaths of two townies has brought the town down to a 23% chance of victory according to Soccer's chart on page 4.

Also, perhaps Soccer isn't so suspicious; that chart is really handy, and I suppose his defense of Kro could be explained as wanting to hear both sides of the argument in order to prevent the death of another possible townie.  

VOTECOUNT OF THE DAY

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day ends in: March 13, 4:00 a.m. INTERGUILD TIME.

Krotomo (1) - Yimmy
aych bee (1) - Krotomo
Yimmy (1) - Jorster

NOT VOTING:
aych bee, mymop, atvelonis, Soccerboy




Nobody is due prods. Keep it up!

If we had two millers, surely the second one would have revealed themselves right after Isa. As we've established previously, the most logical move for a miller is to claim their role early in the game. Why would this change if there were two?


Scum would realize how obvious their relation would be if they continuously defended each other, no? Similarly, it would be suspicious if they consistently accused the other of being scum (failed reverse psychology act). They could defend each other with the assumption that townies would overlook it as being too simple an explanation for the mafia team, but I think this still draws too much attention. It's more likely for them to keep a distance and not really interact with one another, or do the minimum amount of interaction to prevent accusations of purposely avoiding contact.

Also, from a balance perspective, it wouldn't make sense to put Isa (who I replaced) and soccerboy on the same team.

Yimmy:

Source:

Source:

Forgive me for misunderstanding.

As for the bit about theorycrafting, I think it's important.


I intend to point out more so that the risk is not worth taking rather than that it is above X%.


If it is, in fact, not "that common" to have 1 miller, I would expect the odds to be even less to have 2. It is a possibility, of course, to have two millers, but if that scenario were to have taken place, we would have been able to scrutinize it at the time based on the unlikely circumstance. I would be very surprised to have 2.

I was under the impression that the cop is one of the more common roles, and it would be almost guaranteed in a game such as this.


If Isa was scum, the advantage of him fake-claiming was near minimal (assuming Isa had kept playing rather than handed it to Kro). Of course, with the advent of Kro, we are now questioning the claim. The motivation behind the claim is what I am trying to discern. I am arguing that at the time it would not make sense for Isa to take the risk of fake-claiming, mostly because he is good enough where he could coast along. i.e. he would not need a cover.



After all of this, I suppose this is fair. I am glad there is no haste here. We will just have to keep judging on his future posts.

Mymop:



I will try to make this clearer because I feel like repetition is necessary here.

1. We would dispute it and most likely conclude that the first poster would be lying, as if the second person was scum, they would be immediately caught. This does not provide anything in the case of there being two Millers, but again, we have to think about the low odds of this. Assuming the game does not have 2, we would figure out 1 scum in one or two days, which is pretty well on track.
2. There is no way to concretely say anything any player says is true, barring mod confirmation. So, we must look at whether one outcome is more likely.

I argue: it is more likely that Isa received the role of Miller and claimed under his belief that claiming Miller on his first post is the best strategy than that he rolled Mafia and decided to fake-claim as Miller, at the risk of there being another such role and putting him under unnecessary attention.

The second case is possible, but in my opinion, more unlikely than the first. I am not proving anything. There is no guarantee. I am just presenting my reasons as to why I believe Kro to be town in the face of everyone else believing him to be scum.

As for your next paragraph, I would hardly say I predicted it, but I was aware that it could happen with half the players being new to the game. I am simply not in favor of putting someone at L-1 when I think L-2 is substantial enough pressure, at least under these circumstances.

Kro's lynch would not be a good scum move. It draws an incredible amount of attention, and scum would want the goldilocks amount of attention on them: not too much, not too little.

Mymop, you tend to get slightly confused in your arguments: you always say X is possible, but then again Y is just as likely. Be aware that having 2 outcomes does not imply the odds are 50-50.

Keep in mind that the chart is based solely on random kills. We are better than random (hopefully), and while lynching a townie is a better outcome for scum, it might not be in their long-term best interest as Day 1 mislynches happen frequently enough anyway.

Kro:

As far as I am aware, all roles are randomly assigned.

Another note: I am still suspicious of you, as we all should. Make some posts that actually in some way might lead people to believe that you're town. As of now, I only believe you to be town because of Isa's actions, but with each post, you stray away from that.

Also, to address your earlier post, fluff is not the same as elaboration/repetition. Post length does not indicate anything about the quality of the argument, but of course, if it is not easy to understand, it does no good.


Sorry if this a bit of a wall of text, I tried to break it up with headers. I have to go get dinner, but I will hopefully be able to come back after and post my full reads. I wanted to respond to the latest messages first.  

It doesn't matter whether the first or the second person who claims miller is scum; there is no way to tell which one of them is telling the truth. Also:

So then, how is it that someone would be "instantly caught" by being the second one to claim miller?


I don't recall ever having said that two things are "just as likely" recently in this topic. Perhaps some of my statements could have been interpreted that way; if so that was not the intention and if you'd provide an example I'd be happy to clear up the ambiguity.

-----

One last thing: considering how I thought Isa's determination in relentlessly coming after me was suspicious, I anticipate that some people might think I'm focusing too much on Soccer, and that that might be suspicious. The reason that my last two posts have only quoted Soccer are that his posts are the only ones that I felt I could make a meaningful reply to.  

Please share readlists guys.  

From mafiascum:

Note: yes, there could be two millers, but it is unlikely.


The unlikely event of there being two Millers leads me to believe that in the case of two claiming, the first one would be more likely to be fakeclaiming. In either case, it would be a risk to fake claim, as it puts the person in the spotlight without good reason, but I would assume the second person to be telling the truth mostly because there wouldn't be that much of a benefit to it. In the worst case scenario (assuming one of them is fakeclaiming), then we get 1 scum killed in exchange for the Miller, which is a pretty decent place to be sitting by Day 2.


Caught in the sense that if one flips (gets killed and is shown to be) Miller, then the other one is presumably scum.

How I believe this relates to Isa's situation:

I think posting earlier gives him more credibility, or rather, I would be more skeptical if he had posted last. There is a greater risk involved if he were to fakeclaim without waiting for everyone to have the chance to claim beforehand. Note that if he is actually the Miller, he doesn't care if someone fake-claims after, as that leads to one of them being scum. Ultimately, it would be beneficial to the town overall, and so he doesn't care if he gets lynched, NKed, etc.

This is on the basis that the odds of having two millers are incredibly low. If Isa was fake-claiming, this would mean that he would have to bank of the defense of "there must just be two millers then" in the case that someone else claimed.

As for your last part:


I was mostly referring to this:



This is why I was trying to get the point across that while no one can know anything solely because of other players' posts, we can still determine which outcome is more likely to be the truth.

If Isa fake-claimed, and a second person claimed miller, when one or the other flipped, it would cause heavy doubt/belief towards to other person's claim.

That is:

Case 1:
Isa fakeclaims. X claims after and is THE REAL MILLER. X or Isa gets lynched/killed. If X is killed and flips Town, Isa is scum and gets lynched. If Isa is killed, 1 scum down! X is presumably telling the truth.

Case 2:
Isa is THE REAL MILLER. X fakeclaims. X or Isa gets lynched/killed. If Isa is killed and flips Town, X is scum and gets lynched. If X is killed, 1 scum down! Isa is presumably telling the truth.

Theoretically, there could be two millers. but this is unlikely. Additionally, someone could fakeclaim Miller as town w/o being Miller, but that's kind of pointless. Assuming neither of these situations, one scum gets killed in either 1 or 2 days. This is very good for town, not so much for scum. This is why I believe that under the circumstances, the risk that Isa would have taken on by fakeclaiming is far, far greater than the reward would be. I believe earlier Yimmy was trying to say that the reward is evidenced by my belief of him being town, but I would not directly believe his case if two people ultimately claimed (i.e. at the time of Isa's posting). The risk was in Isa not knowing. Obviously, there is a high reward involved, but the risk is much greater.

Read list:

1) Aych bee: Neutral. Due to schoolwork she hasn't been as active during Day 2 as she was during Day 1, but I haven't observed anything scummy in any of her comments. She said she would post a read list at some point but until that happens I'm just going to go neutral on this one.

2) Krotomo: Slight town. I was initially convinced of Isa's innocence. Kro's hammer at the end of Day 1 threw me off, though, and his suspicion of HB struck me as kind of forced (?), so for a while I was leaning towards him being scum. However, Soccer does present a really good argument about Isa, and per my previous comments I think it's not unlikely that Kro's hammer was in some part influenced by a perceived need to do something "big" since he was replacing Isa—the hammer was obviously a mistake, but I'm now of the opinion that it was a genuine one.

3) Jorster: Town. Has been relatively inactive since just after Kro's hammer so I don't have a lot to go off of. I thought his comments at the end of Day 1 and beginning of Day 2 toward Kro indicated that he was genuinely upset at the hammer, not just pretending to be angry as scum would probably do. He's also been consistently encouraging pro-town behavior.

4) Mymop: Neutral. Not really sure what to think. A couple of his comments have been extremely strange, namely the Elon Musk/Kro thing on Page 9 (Kro is indeed a very smart person, but I think his tone of voice in real life is hardly anything to theorize on), and he didn't cast a vote on Day 1. Might be able to chalk all of this up to inexperience, but I really don't know.

5) Soccer: Town. Soccer has been very active lately (probably the most active out of all of us) and has presented what I think is pretty logical analysis. Ultimately seems pretty pro-town to me.

6) Yimmy: Slight town. His recent comments have been a bit curt so I'm getting the feeling that he's frustrated with the way the game's been turning out (probably because of how Day 1 ended in particular). I think this indicates that he's town more than scum but I'm not positive.

My current reads:

1. Yimmy - leaning scum
The contradiction in what he had said earlier makes me very suspicious/confused.





I think that Yimmy is too hasty in trying to prove a point. He didn't even bother to look at what he said or my inclusion his direct quote right above my commentary. Reread the conversation going on between us from the bottom of page 9 up to his post on page 10. Just such an odd thing to try to correct me on. To me, it comes off that he just wants any reason to try to say I'm wrong, and this does not come across as town behavior. The point of contention wasn't even a matter of a nuanced argument that needed further clarification. You explicitly stated this and then said that you didn't.

I want to see what he has to say.

Vote: Yimmy

2. Kro - town
y'all have seen my thoughts on this

3. HB - null

I get that school takes priority, but we haven't really heard a lot from you unless it is at your defense. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I am wary of it. There's nothing overtly scummy about your behavior but also nothing that stands out as exceedingly good play either.

4. Mymop - slight town

I understand why he was confused about Isa putting immediate pressure on him, given the circumstances. At first, he didn't really seem to take the game seriously. I feel like he's started to pick up on things, and he is at least processing/questioning other peoples' thoughts. I've generally got town vibes from him, but I am curious if I am missing something that Isa initially picked up on but didn't get a chance to say.

5. Jory - null

Sorry dude, I have to be slightly more suspicious of you since I know you better. I'm afraid that I'm going to gloss over some obvious slip just because you're normal to me.

As far as I'm aware though, you've been adding fair amounts of reads, contributing to the discussion, etc.

6. atvelonis - null, very questionable

Very unmemorable play, though he's had some input. Seems hesitant to actually post thoughts/reads or make guesses as to who is scum. Maybe is just waiting for more information to surface? My guesses indicate a range from VERY town (1:5), null (2:5), or slight scum (2:5). On average, null. Hard to say until he makes more substantial posts or comes under fire.

At present, I believe yimmy is most likely to be scum. The second scum would come from one of the null reads: HB, Jory, and atvelonis.

Please note that I voted for Yimmy and this brings him to L-2.


NINJA'd by atvelonis. Just adds to the fact that there's nothing too substantial. Very blasé. No one leaning scum, no elaboration on the neutrals. If there's another person who I would like to receive pressure, I would advocate for him.  

Edit by way of post:

That first quote should say

on the subject of me saying "cops are s super common role":

that was at the time when i was especially tired of the game, so i didnt bother proofreading the post much (otherwise i probably would've changed some phrasing to be less obnoxious)

despite that 2 millers is unlikely, assuming that it's impossible could potentially put as at a D3 lylo so while it would draw attention, lynching based off it alone could have incredibly dire consequences.

readjust coming tomorrow hopefully  

Not super happy with atvelonis' read list. Very fence sit-ish, and i think it's probably because of uncertainty and not wanting to make the wrong choice but im leaning town on him for now. I await your readlist with much gusto Yimmy.

VOTECOUNT OF THE DAY

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day ends in: March 13, 4:00 a.m. INTERGUILD TIME.

Krotomo (1) - Yimmy
aych bee (1) - Krotomo
Yimmy (2) - Jorster, Soccerboy

NOT VOTING:
aych bee, mymop, atvelonis



Prodding Krotomo and aych bee.

Sorry for my inactivity. I'll be posting a new read list, probably later tonight.

Ok I'll post soon, I have been very busy this week (sorry)

Soccer: I still disagree with you on the subject of the veracity of Isa's claim. I don't have any major new points to mention but I stand by what I've already said about it. I doubt that either of us will convince the other, and it seems that this might turn into an endless argument without any new information, so perhaps it would be best if we just dropped it.

My reads list:

atvelonis: slight town. He hasn't said a whole lot but I don't think that's because of him intentionally trying to lay low (which would suggest that he's scum) so much as that he either wants more information, or just doesn't have much time (he seems to have a lot more homework in all his classes than I do). In his posts he doesn't ever seem to take much of a stance but he's sometimes like that in real life as well so I'm not concerned by it.

HB: neutral. HB's insightful contributions are a good sign. She has not been very active recently but I don't see that as a major cause for concern because she could have something more important going on in real life (last week a bunch of people in my town lost power, for example). The biggest argument against her is that she was one of the most significant opponents of RG. However, I also suspected RG until his role was revealed so I think some suspicion of him is reasonable.

Jorster: neutral. Jorster has posted a lot of stuff like encouraging reads lists and similar things, but he, like HB, seems to have been pretty significant in the votes and arguments against RG. His votes overall seem to have been a go-with-the-flow sort of thing but I don't know him as well as Atvelonis so I can't tell whether that's scummy or just the way he is.

Krotomo: moderate scum. I have two reasons. First, his lynch of RG. While he and Soccer have both posted some explanations for this I think his vote was too sudden; he cast his vote very soon after Jorster had said it would be best to wait until the end of the day before lynching anyone. My second reason is because of Isa's miller claim, which I at first doubted, then believed, and am now skeptical of once again for reasons that I've been arguing with Soccer over.

Soccer: slight town. Soccer has posted a significant amount of worthwhile material. I initially thought his defense of Kro was a bit suspicious but based on the sheer number of reasons he provides I now think he genuinely believes Kro is innocent and wants to avoid a wrongful lynch.

Yimmy: town. Yimmy has provided a moderate amount of insight. He seems to side with me fairly often but does post when he doesn't. He has also thought of some things I never considered. His recent apathetic sort of mood and the shifting around of his enthusiasm for the game has come under criticism but it seems a lot like RG, who turned out to be innocent, and it's not too far off from how I am sometimes.  

Soccerboy: Town. My opinion of soccerboy’s alignment has not really changed much. He has easily been the one who has offered the most analysis, and has been consistently presenting and encouraging pro-town behavior. His presence does make me a bit nervous, though. I constantly feel like he’s playing at a level much higher than anything I can understand, like he’s somehow laying traps with every one of his posts.

Soccerboy has the most influence here; he was clearly able to convince atvelonis and Jorster to lessen their suspicion of me. With that being said however, I feel as though he has not been pressured enough. Sure, if he is town, which is pretty much universally believed, then he is by far the most valuable asset. But if he is scum—a possibility which has not been thoroughly discussed from what I can tell—then I would say he has already won the game, assuming this lack of suspicion towards him continues.


Yimmy: Town lean. After soccerboy, yimmy has contributed the most analysis. I was never really that put off by the way he generally words his arguments, though I understand where the criticism of his posts comes from. As for the “super” contradiction soccerboy brought up, that seems to me more like negligence rather than outright scum behavior, though it does seem odd that yimmy felt the need to falsely correct you there. And negligence still isn’t good.

However, it was off-putting to me when Jorster brought up searching for additional scum (after assuming I was scum, but the point is he was trying to get people to explore additional options), and yimmy replied with “that includes you kthx,” and after that never really mentioned his scum reads for anyone but myself. Yimmy seemed to completely disregard exploring the possibility of other members being scum. That came off as pretty anti-town to me, and I would still like to hear yimmy’s reads of other players, which will presumably come with his next post. My opinion of yimmy really depends on his next read list.


Jorster: Town lean. My opinion of Jorster has changed pretty significantly since my first post. He has generally supported pro-town activity through requesting readlists and encouraging varied discussion, though I think it’s strange he hasn’t really presented his own new ideas much (not that I have done that much, either).


HB: Scum lean. I still think HB leans scum for her constant suspicion of Rocketguy in Day 1, combined with her activity (or lack thereof) in Day 2. So far the only new analysis I’ve seen from her was her theorizing that Jory and I were scum together (after soccerboy had just mentioned why trying to find the scum team in one go was a bad idea), and then debunking her own theory. That being said, HB has claimed to be inactive due to her being busy with schoolwork, so similar to yimmy I’m willing to change my opinion of her based off of her next posts.


Mymop: Neutral. Really not sure what to think about mymop. He seems pro-town in the way he is making an effort to find scum, but his arguments are weird for obvious reasons. Most people seem to assume that this is due to his inexperience, but maybe there’s something more here? I really can’t tell.


Atvelonis: Town lean. I pointed out earlier that Atvelonis seemed to be regurgitating statements made by others rather than presenting his own fresh ideas. He has since stepped it up, notably through his long post on page 8, which indicates to me that he is making a legitimate effort to be pro-town. Furthermore, I have since found myself struggling to find new things to say, and so can understand why atvelonis wasn’t really making that many original statements.

1. Yimmy - Slight scum. Yimmy's play seems to have been affected by his increasing apathy towards the game. In retrospect, I feel like part of the reason that RG2 seemed during D1 so scummy was because he, too, wasn't very invested in the game, and his inactivity compounded that. Yimmy, on the other hand, seems to feel an obligation to post at a detriment to the quality of his posts. We need to examine the possible reasons for Yimmy's apathy from a psychological point of view. I'd say it makes more sense for him to lean scum because he seemed to be pushing for a Kro lynch (which would preclude Kro from being mafia).

2. Krotomo - Slight town. So I'd say that Kro hasn't actually done anything overtly scummy other than the hammer, which has been discussed ad nauseum over the past day. My initial impression of him was more of a knee-jerk reaction to his accusation of me than anything else; though his arguments did have some problems, by now I understand how my D1 actions could've come across as suspicious. Since I knew that I'm innocent, I kind of just assumed that anyone who believed otherwise *must* be scum, which is not necessarily the most logical conclusion to reach. Given Isa's experience, I doubt he would've found it advantageous to lie about being Miller, and no matter what your opinion of Kro is, his actions don't negate that.

3. Soccer - Town His analysis has been logical and very much in the interests of the town. As Kro said, he's definitely a major player in this game so I would encourage the Cop to investigate him tonight to ascertain his innocence. I don't really have much more to say about him.

4. Mymop - Neutral. A lot of Mymop's antipathy towards Krotomo (in the context of the game, of course) seems to originate from the fact that Kro inherited Isa's role, Isa being the one who was heavily pushing for pressure on Mymop in the first round. I am actually not sure how to interpret that so I will leave him as neutral for now.

5. Jory - Town. Um, so I'll just go ahead and say that my analysis for Jory is mainly based on the sock thing. Kro has warned me not to try to find both members of the scum team at once (he seems more insistent on that point than Soccer is, even though it was the latter who first mentioned it), but I still think it's useful to analyze how people interact with each other (or don't interact). I still feel like the only way that Jory could be scum is if he's teamed up with Kro, and since I have said that Kro probably leans town, that means Jory is probably also not scum. OR MAYBE I am underestimating Jory's willingness to chew a sock.

6. atvelonis - Slight scum. Yeah I'll have to echo Soccer's dissatisfaction with atvelonis' reads list. It doesn't really tell me anything at all. He does make a good point about Kro feeling the need to take a big, dramatic step to fill Isa's shoes but other than that I haven't seen a lot from him.

Currently refraining from voting until Yimmy and/or atvelonis provides more justification for their behaviour.

the general consensus seems to be that my apathy is a serious problem so ive informed shos that id like to be replaced (im gonna stay in until he finds a replacement though)


im assuming that you misinterpreted my post (which isnt surprising) but im really struggling to follow what you're saying here
what i was trying to communicate was that it rubbed me the wrong way that he told others to post reads list without taking any initiative to do so himself

Krotomo: scum. isa didn't say enough while he was in the game to really judge that this is how he normally plays (also i dont really like meta cases). nothing he did really seems super towny to me and the continual push on mymop was unusual.
i really dont want to repeat myself on krotomos actions or the miller claim. on the subject of his readslists, his reasons are all super basic or something that's already been said (except mymop i guess") so that's not really changing my mind

HB: slight town. while it's true she was very active against rocketguy she didn't seem much like she was trying to convince others to vote for him, but to get more content out of rg. that aside, what's notable to me is her willingness to post wild theories which wouldn't do much as scum because it could potentially split people off the obviously dominant rg wagon.

soccer: slight scum. he hardly posted actual content (just advice and opinions on how the game should be played, which give the impression of effort and whatnot but is something scum could do just as easily as town) until his readslist come page 6 where all of his town reads were based on activity (slightly less for his scum reads) but provided in such a long-winded way to make it seem like more than that. (also some miller stuff but discussing that falls into opinions on how the game should be played). also on page 8 he puts a FoS on krotomo meaning he's suspicious of him and after nothing meaningful from kro and somebody pointing out that focusing solely on kro is silly his stance changes to "I'm ... reading Kro as more town leaning than scum leaning on the basis of Isa's claim" along with some weak defences. and this is after multiple posts explaining why krotomo is scummy.

mymop: newbtown. many of his ideas and mannerisms seem super newbtown to me. i doubt i could articulate it well and i don't really see any need to try (if you really want me to i can do a more in-depth post on this)

jorster: slight town. his style of many smaller posts makes him harder to read so i have less insight. he hasn't done anything that strikes me as scummy but of particular note is this post which strikes me as town because there's literally no reason scum would want to make a weak case against the two most townread people at the time

atvelonis: null. basically the same as jorster except there's nothing that's struck me as particularly town-ish either


you seem to want a response to this but idk how to defend myself from this. whoops i remembered wrong?

this post took way too long

hindsight i failed to communicate this at all
literally no reason is a ridiculous exaggeration
the fact he was aware it was a weak argument makes it seem he was town looking for anything he could rather than scum who would've gone for a stronger argument on someone more lynchable. obviously scum would want to make a case against townread people but only if they thought they had a chance of convincing someone

The problem here is that I'm not really seeing anyone as scum in the first place. If I had to vote right now I would probably go with Mymop/HB, or maybe Yimmy, but nothing they've done has struck me as explicitly scummy. Also, we mislynched RG in Day 1, and I'm not excited to repeat that. I realize the usefulness/necessity of casting pressure votes but considering I can't even pick out who the scum are, I'm certainly not going to cast a vote until a bit later in the day, after I have more evidence of someone to pressure.